I've said it before, and I'll say it again (because I mean it): I like to hear from satisfied customers! Here's one more that said he didn't mind if I posted his email: Tom, Just wanted to provide you with some positive feedback on the bolt and breech conversion you did for my Remington 700ML. This gun has never shot as good as it does now. I have switched to CCI magnum primers,100 gr blackhorn powder and 300gr Harvester Scorpion PT Gold Polymer Tip bullets. I actually enjoy hunting with this gun now not having to worry about misfires and excessive cleaning with the old 209 conversion kits. Thanks again for the quick turn around and a great product. Mike F Indiana Mike,
Thanks for taking the time to write in. It's my pleasure to help. Hope you get a big one! Tom Got a bad bolt body? Need a new one? We make these out of the Remington over-run bodies and TIG weld new production Remington 700 stainless handles to them. So these are as close to OEM originals as you can get in stainless!!! These fit and function just fine, but aren't media blasted nor polished. They are still in the white; so you can you use them as is, or finish to your desires. Don't want the standard Remington 700 handle? You can ship us a bolt handle and we'll weld it to a bolt body and return it you. Want a 209 nose pressed on? No problem. These bolt bodies come with free USPS shipping to US, AK, HI, & PR! Always happy to hear from customers. Here is an email I received from David T in Michigan after completing the Remington 700 ML 209 shot shell primer conversion on his bolt:Tom, Just a follow up to let you know I am very happy with your 209 conversion on my Remington 700ML. A superior system compared to stock, it provides piece of mind knowing that the rifle is going to fire every time I pull the trigger. Your product and craftsmanship are top of the line. Your conversion takes a marginal performing muzzleloader and turns it into a highly reliable hunting firearm. Thank You, David T Michigan Thanks for the kind words Dave! Glad to know you are enjoying your rifle.
Gabe R, from California took the time to write the email below, so I thought I'd share: Tom: Good evening . I finally got a chance to try out the new Badger Ridge Primer system a couple of weeks ago. Here's how it went: I made a trip out to the local desert and used the following components for my test:
Winchester W209 primers were used for a couple of reasons: 1. They required the least amount of reaming to fit the breach plug (as compared to Remington and Cheddite), 2. I have about 5000 on hand so these saved me a trip to the local sporting goods store. Overall, the results have been very promising with the three tests yielding the following average velocities: 80 gr. powder - 1552 fps* 100 gr. powder - 1795 fps* 120 gr. powder - 2000 fps* All loads were chronographed using Competition Electronics, ProChrono Digital. There was no soot or blow-by on any of the fired primers, however there were some issues when using 80 -100 gr. of Blackhorn powder. In two cases, the primer backed out and became stuck in the bolt face. These were cleared by dry firing the spent primer. There were no issues when firing 120 gr. loads with all six primers easily dropping out of the bolt face when the rifle was canted to the right. Overall, the Badger Ridge Hunter 700 ML 209 conversion kit has resurrected my Remington 700 ML. I am looking forward to using this rifle in upcoming muzzleloading hunts. Thanks for the great product and service, Gabe R *I asked Gabe, and he reported he shot one 3 shot group at 80gr and 100gr, then two 3 shot groups at 120gr to get his average velocities. Your are welcome Gabe! Thank you for your candid feed back from the field. I trust our Remington 700ML 209 conversion will serve you well, and wish you the best of luck on your hunts!
Also it is common for the Winchester primers to blow out the back of the primer cup (aka balloon) and frequently require a dry firing to remove. That is why I recommend and use CCI. Copyright 2015, www.BadgerRidgeInd.com Randy Wakeman reviewed a Badger Ridge 209 converted 700 MLS. If you watch his video, I ask that you please watch the entire video. I did send this rifle (my 209 converted hunting rifle) to Randy fully cleaned and coated with oil... so that explains the first hang fire (oil soaked powder). Randy shot it as it came; he didn't dry up the oil I left it coated with. The second shot, I agree with Randy: those new Federal B.O.R. LOCK MZ™ bullets (or even power-belts) and Black Horn 209 don't always work well with Remington 700ML barrels (because the Remington barrel is a bit bigger and they don't always seal well). Blackhorn 209 needs a good solid seal for proper combustion. After Randy fires those first two shots he uses sabots and Blackhorn 209. Now you will see the true performance of our 209 conversion kit: It shoots and works well. And that rifle is not a ringer... its just my deer rifle with a simple fixed 4 power scope. It is the same rifle my dad gave me over 12 years ago. Also, Randy is not shooting my primer/load/bullet/sabot combo, so its not even sighted in for that load! Note the lack of blow back on the sides of the primer randy shows in the video. I tuned that breech plug to feed and seal the CCI's I use in the rifle. Randy used Winchester and Federal primers. Each brand will vary a little and seal in a little differently. I use and recommend CCI, but you are free to chose what you like. You can read his write up here: http://randywakeman.com/IgnitionSystemUpgradetotheolderRemington700MLMuzzleloader.htm To see the same rifle with CCI's, 120Gr Blackhorn209, 44 cal 240gr XTP's, green sabots, and zero blow back check out this video: https://youtu.be/ELohSHuJkGA AKA How Trying to Make Oranges Out of Apples Gives You LemonsIn the course of answering questions about the Remington 700 ML/MLS 209 Conversion kit I've been getting some reoccurring questions. I updated the FAQ and realized I wanted to say more here as well. The FAQ: Q: Have you considered making a Remington 700ML conversion that can use a 45 ACP primed case instead of a 209 primer? A: "Yes, but in the end it didn't make sense and did not make it off the drawing board." Q: Then why does Remington use a 45ACP/30'06 like primed case in it's new 700 Ultimate muzzle-loader? A: "The 700 Ultimate is an entirely different rifle from the 700ML. Those cases have head diameters that are too big for a proper breech plug in the 700ML. Primer carrier ignition has been done in the 700ML with smaller cases like the 25ACP and 32ACP, but the kit would cost more to produce. What would anyone gain over what our current kit does with easily obtainable standard 209 primers? The only answer is that one who is set up to reload could save a small amount by using Magnum Rifle primers. Saving a little on primers with added complications like de-priming and re-priming hard to find cases isn't for everyone. So, it did't make sense to produce a cartridge based primer carrier kit. A simple, solid, effective, reliable kit is what we sell, so we are sticking with just a 209 kit." Q: What about 209 shaped primer holders that use Magnum Rifle primers (the holder is reusable)? A: "Not worth it in our opinion. They would require fitting to seal the breech properly, and add another level of complication for a very low savings. That savings is only achieved after many firings (you have to buy the 209 magnum primer adapter then factor the savings over the price difference between magnum primers and 209's). The use of standard 209 primers is effective and simple." A complete detailed answer: First, one can not compare the 700ML to the new Remington 700 Ultimate (AKA 700 UML, or 700 UM). That is plainly apples to oranges. Remember that the 700 Ultimate was designed to use more powder, and shoot farther more accurately than other muzzle loaders. It was a ground up design based on custom guns with this goal. It uses a standard 700 action (its a modern fire arm that requires 4473's and whatever else your state requires legally buy it from a gun dealer). From what I've read it is an awesome muzzle-loader; but it does this with a trade off in cost, length and weight (and complexity from where I stand). With the 700ML we are trying to leverage a readily available, out of production, slightly flawed rifle, that is shorter and handles well: and modify it into a great rifle. The 700 Ultimate is around double the cost of a 700ML with our conversion kit combined! Also, would you compare the Savage 10 ML-II to the 700 Ultimate? To answer that you get into smokeless powder muzzle loading vs black powder (the 700 Ultimate is a black powder only rifle). So that's apples to oranges again. Apples to apples is comparing our originally leaky apple (the 700ML) to the more expensive, more capable, but not leaky apple (the Savage 10 ML-II). Our kit makes our apple better, but still a black powder rifle, and gives up on turning an apple into a lemon. The real issue is, if you made a cartridge case based system work in the 700ML (and it can be done) what do you gain over our conversion kit and 209 primers? We concluded: "Nothing except being able to buy and stock less expensive magnum rifle primers." What do you lose? Conclusion: "Simplicity." Not a good trade from where I stand: lemon. So while in the design phase of a case based primer carrier solution I reached the conclusion that it doesn't make sense in the 700ML. It boils down to: the 209 system Badger Ridge offers is simpler, effective, less expensive, and seals the breech just fine. I shoot 209 primers with BH209 without a problem why re-invent the wheel? So just go buy our kit... oh you want more... OK read on: Second, the diameter of the 700 ML OEM barrel's breech is too narrow for a strong, simply removable breech plug with a .45ACP/30'06 case head. The guys who have made the cartridge case carrier system work for the 700ML tend to use .32 ACP and .25 ACP due to their smaller case head. Those cases are hard to find, cost a bit more, and require the shooter to be a re-loader, have hard to find dies, not so common shell holders to size/de-prime and re-prime. You also have to get the head spacing just right between the case web and nose of the breech plug to get consistent flash through the breech plug and into the powder charge. Definitely the realm of the motivated tinkerer. Randy Wakeman recently told me that in developing the 700 Ultimate from its custom gun roots, Remington changed the case to breech interface a little in the ultimate to improve this, and thus you can't just use any case and its easiest just to get the right ones from Remington. He mentioned that to make them 'right' yourself that the case web and primers flash hole had to tweeked. That was definitely a concern of mine as I drafted the plans for a cartridge carried based system. Not insurmountable by any means, just more costly and complicated. Again making that work in the 700ML is the realm of the tinkerer. Truth be told, every deer I've shot at with my 700ML was hit and killed. The only ones I didn't take a shot at were to far away for 'me' to take a shot at in those conditions (about 200 to 350 yards); Will changing the priming source increase range or accuracy? I'm convinced it will not. What does it gain me beyond using marginally cheaper primers in a much more costly and complicated system? I cannot think of one legitimate thing. Some would argue the case based systems seal the breech against elements better. I've hunted in the rain and didn't have a miss fire. With our 209 conversion kit, the 209's seal the blow-back in and the elements out. And as for using our kit with the hard metal primer carriers that allow you to put a magnum rifle primer inside to shoot from a 209 system; you'll have to do some precision work to tune them to our breech plug or the breech plug to them in order to get them to seal properly. As designed, the 209 conversion kit we sell and install swages a 209 primer slightly to get a sealed breech; I doubt the hard metal carriers will swage satisfactorily. Using the feeding action of the bolt to swage a standard 209 into the breech plug and then discarding the discharged 209 is simple and effective. KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid Consider all the issues with the case type primer carriers. Then factor in that our 209 system (as developed by Fred) is already an effective, simple to maintain, cheaper to make/buy, no reloading equipment needed, sealed breech system that uses the OEM breech plug wrench (or a standard 7/16 socket). For all these reasons we decided our 209 sealed breech system comes out ahead, and dropped development of a cartridge case based primer carrier system before even turning the first part. Figured we were on the path to turning an apple into a lemon during our quest for an orange. Check out the YouTube video below of our system in action. We think you will agree that the mission has been accomplished. I, just like every shooter I know, grew up shooting smokeless powder. Other than accompanying my dad to the range and again on a very frigid muzzle-loader hunt one December (before I was old enough to hunt on my own), I didn't really have any exposure to black powder rifles. And besides my dad used Pyrodex so that wasn't a real black powder experience... according to the purists I knew. Black powder was just a footnote in my hunter safety class. My first interaction with 'real' black powder was when I took my model rockets to my Grandfather's farm. Yup, that’s Badger Ridge. We were having trouble getting consistent ignition on the rockets via the standard “solar igniters”. My Grandfather told me to hold on; he’d be back. He left me and the rest of the family in the hay field with all the gear I hauled up. He came back with a tin of FFG Goex, filled the rocket nozzle with it, inserted the solar igniter and sealed it with some scotch tape. My problems with consistent ignition on my model rockets was solved with a bit of Grandpa's extra smokey oomph! Too bad my mom wouldn't let me do that anywhere else but at Badger Ridge. My Grandpa also was known to have saltpeter and blasting cap solutions to stubborn stumps. (But as usual I digress, and am forced to put in some sort of disclaimer: Badger Ridge does not recommend nor condone the use of flammable firearms propellants for purposes out side of the legal purpose they were designed for. Always follow the manufacture's instructions and all safe practices... OK I feel better now.) Before I shot my first muzzle-loader I had put thousands upon thousands of smokeless rounds down range. Albeit most were .22LR via my participation as a small bore competitor; I did my share of shooting service rifle as well. All those rifles got cleaned regularly with standard gun cleaning products. So when I found out I had to use soap, water, and stuff that smelled like wintergreen to clean and protect my muzzle-loader I had a bit of an adjustment to make. But I did it; I made up a special muzzle loader tool kit with all the necessities so that I could grab it and be certain I had what I needed to take care of my 700MLS. I smelled the stink of Pyrodex with my dad, and a similar but weaker stink when I first started muzzle loading on my own with Triple Seven. I never got nostalgic about the stink and non petroleum based cleaners I put to work on cleaning my rifle. To me shooting should smell like nitro cellulose (smokeless powder). So while I never got nostalgic on the stink, I will admit I thought about rubbing bore butter on to 'freshen' myself after a few days of hunting. I honestly found it difficult to clean with soap and water at the more rustic hunt camps. It down right sucked to get all wet when it was so cold outside. I knew my breech loaders didn't need the urgent clean up, and could be made good with a few patches of Shooters choice or Hoppe's and bit of oil. That all changed, and things got back to normal once I discovered Blackhorn 209. See, all other black powder substitutes that I know of use stinky chemistry that just doesn't work with modern petroleum based gun cleaners. Other black powder substitutes tend to have sulfur in them (which stinks) and need plain old soap and water to clean up. Black powder chemistry doesn't do well when burning in the presence of petroleum oils and greases. I always thought about the incompatibility of anti-seize and black powder; so I worked to keep the two separate but they were always in close proximity on my breech plugs. But Blackhorn 209, uses the same chemistry (nitrocellulose) as smokeless powder. Hoppe's # 9, Shooters Choice, Break-Free CLP, Mobil1, or whatever your favorite bore cleaner and oils work just fine with it. Also it's residue is not inherently corrosive, or at least no more than normal smokeless powder. So I don't have the same sense of urgency in cleaning that muzzle loader. Remember though, the residue is hygroscopic... or in other words it attracts water from the air. And water on a metal promotes corrosion. So you do want to clean your rifle, just not quite as urgently! Remember my separate gun cleaning kit for my muzzle-loader? It got merged with my normal gun cleaning box and that’s that. But that is just the tip of the iceberg. Those other powders foul and leave deposits that are not only corrosive, but gummy messes. Though I do have to acknowledge that my experience with Triple Seven confirmed it was better than what I had seen with others who used black powder or Pyrodex. But Blackhorn 209 blows them all away. No more fouling than what I've seen in my smokeless guns. Never any trouble pulling my breech plug, though I still use a bit of anti-seize on it. No swabbing between shots at the range. No changes to accuracy as the rifle fouls itself into a constricted mess (Triple Seven was an improvement here too). About the only thing you still shouldn't do is leave your muzzle-loader charged for a while or go a long time with out cleaning (see the picture for a breech plug that was in a rifle that was fired multiple times and then left charged for about 8 months). The 416 stainless steel plug in the picture came out just fine with no trouble, but it had some surface pitting. It was cleaned and scrubbed with steel wool before the pic below was taken. Any other powder would have wrecked that rifle and froze the plug in the breech. Breech plug left in a rifle fired with multiple shots of BH209 and then left charged with Blackhorn 209 for 8 months before it was pulled. Never leave any muzzle loader charged for a long period, even un-fired powder can promote corrosion. I can't even imagine how it would look if any other powder residue was left on it for 8 months. But it gets even better. You see Blackhorn is safe to use in modern inline muzzle-loaders and it gets more velocity in that same black powder safe pressure range. In modern inline muzzle loaders it can be used volumetrically the same as black powder. A by volume charge of Blackhorn 209 will give you more velocity (all other things being equal) than black powder or other substitute. Though I think it is important to note that the BH209 load data stops at 120 Gr, (see the picture of the back of the bottle). So I stop working up loads at 120 Gr. Even in my muzzle-loader is rated for 150 Grains (the 700 MLS "Magnums" were rated for 150 grains of black powder by Remington). I figure discretion and safety rule, so I don't go over 120 grains. You can read more about that on the BH209 site (they recommend a max of 120 gr by volume). But BH209 gives more velocity for the same volume of powder. I don’t fully understand all the physics of powders burning and pushing projectiles, but I understand more velocity equals more energy and a flatter trajectory. I don’t think you have can too much of either of those. I need to make it clear. I don’t have stock in Western Powders (the makers of Blackhorn 209) nor am I getting any money from them. I just love the product. But in everything in life there are trade offs. The first trade off for Blackhorn 209 is its price. Outside of finding it on sale, you’ll almost certainly pay more for a container of it than any other black powder substitute. Also the jug that is about the same physical size as a 1 lb jug will only have 10 oz (by weight) in it. But seeing 100 grains by volume of Blackhorn 209 weighs only 70 grains one could do some math to get volumetric equivalents and find that 10 oz by weight is roughly equal to buying 14.3 oz of black powder, so still more expensive but less significantly when one looks at it volumetrically. One last drawback is that some state's rules for black powder hunting don’t allow black powder substitutes or may have wording that cause people to worry that Blackhorn 209’s ‘nitro cellulose chemistry’ would put them in jeopardy of violating the law. For instance in Michigan, where I frequently hunt, muzzle-loaders are not allowed to be charged with smokeless powder for hunting. But the regulations say that “Black Powder Substitutes” are allowed. One look at the Blackhorn 209 label shows that it’s "High Performance Muzzle-loading Propellant". No where on it is it called "smokeless propellant." Thus, it is a black powder substitute with the same combustion classifications as other black powder substitutes. So to me, Michigan regulations are clear; BH209 is allowed. I use it without concern in Virginia as well. Some other states are not as clear. I've read that folks who have written their state's regulatory agencies for clarification, get obtuse, bureaucratic, indefinite replies. So beware and research the rules in your state. Nevada has stated its not allowed there; though I think their logic is faulty. BH209 is chemically nitro cellulose (so is smokeless powder) but BH209's low pressure performance, design for volumetric equivalence to black powder, and combustible status ("Propellant Solid") is the same as black powder. Smokeless powder has to be labeled 'smokeless powder' so that you don't use it in your black powder gun and blow it up. I think anyone who reloads would get the difference and recall every can of smokeless powder being labeled "smokeless powder". And once you figure in BH209 is safe in black powder cartridges for those old black powder only breech loaders, how could BH209 be anything but black powder substitute? The law should care about performance not chemistry. So I don't get the hang up. Also the stuff is just plain safer as its harder to ignite than black powder. So why ban it? Are you against progress? The entire line of thinking that makes BH209 "bad" seems to have parallels to the purists that think that muzzle-loading should be restricted to 'real' black powder, side locks, flint locks, patched balls, and buck skins. I'm having flash backs to when Pyrodex first came out... anyways back on topic: If you want to know more read this. And you can read more here as well. The last trade off is ignition. Like I said BH209 is harder to set off (and thus safer) than black powder and its other substitutes. So, you need a real honest to goodness 209 shot shell primer to ignite Blackhorn 209. Those “Black powder” 209 primers are really primers with less ‘oomph’ as black powder and its stinky substitutes need less ignition heat to set them off. So you can get away with using a lower powered primer with them. But not with Blackhorn 209; it has to be a real full power, designed for a shot-shell, 209 primer. (I understand that guys using brass cases to feed their ‘Remington 700 Ultimate’ type breech plugs use magnum rifle primes as well, but that is outside the scope of this Badger's Den). So if you have a standard 700ML without a 209 conversion, BH209 won’t work. Or if you have one of the leaky breech 209 mods for the 700ML, Western Powders doesn't recommend you use Blackhorn209 (just read the back of the bottle). You probably won't get proper ignition; Blackhorn 209 needs to be sealed up in order to properly combust. But even if you do manage to ignite it, you’ll have even more blow back, as as BH209 has ever so slightly higher pressures (that is how it gets higher velocities) than other substitutes. So to use BH209 in your 700ML/MLS like I do, click here to get one of our sealed breech Remington 700 ML/MLS 209 modification kits. Want to know more about Blackhorn 209? Visit the web site! Copyright 2015, Badger Ridge Industries Made it out to the range today... but forgot the battery on the charger for the good camera. Made due with the bad camera and took one shot with my cell phone. Hope you enjoy watching a zero blow back video extravaganza... note that I leave the cover off the wind-age knob... I wouldn't recommend that with a non converted gun... (was walking in a new load with 240gr 44 cal XTP's, green sabots, and 120GR of Blackhorn209. I usually shoot 45 cal xtps, but I had these 44's I wanted to play with... strangely enough the POI was to the right of my usual .45 load... I was expecting a vertical change not a horizontal one). Can You Make It Shine? Yes! and Here's How!In my last post in The Badger's Den I detailed how my first encounters with a "Canadian 209" modification on my Remington 700 MLS and subsequent years left me disappointed. I knew the rifle could be more. Over the summer of 2012 I began a journey through forums of dedicated muzzle-loader enthusiasts to find that there was a better solution; I just didn't know about it. The solution was a bit buried in forums full of customization, tinkering, some bad ideas, and dead ends. I hope to spare you all the details, cut to the chase, and share with you the product that has finally let me love my 700 MLS. The kit I found and fell in love with was developed by a guy named Fred, who sold it on a few dedicated muzzle loader forums. It was called just a bolt nose kit. But what we offer is more than just a bolt nose, ours is the complete kit. So here at Badger Ridge we call it the "Hunter Remington 700 ML/MLS 209 Conversion Kit, by Badger Ridge". First let me truncate and summarize years of posts over many forums and years of development: Fred developed the kit to modify the OEM Remington 700 ML/MLS black powder muzzle-loader to work properly with 209 primers. At first he made the parts for himself and a few friends. Then the friends started sharing on the forums their success and general pleasure with the kits and from there it grew. Then people started tinkering with smokeless modifications to the 700ML/MLS. That required a barrel swap and and the original bolt nose was too short for the breech plugs that fit the smokeless barrels, so a second bolt nose was made just a bit longer and was called a "Smokeless" like the one you see below the OEM and the smoker, but... ah... well I promised to keep it simple... and now I'm rambling... so I'll explain the "smoker" (standard black powder) modification kit we sell. Like I said, I'm just going to focus on making your "Smoker" work. I suggest you keep it simple as well, and leverage the work and info I'm putting in this blog and my reference section... and end up with a great black powder rifle without breaking the bank. FINALLY THE WAY THE 700 ML/MLS SHOULD BE!The Badger Ridge Remington 209 Conversion Kit is all you need to modify your 700 ML/MLS to use 209 primers without blow back, no special tools to carry in your possibles bag, and it protects the primer from weather (without plastic shrouds to lose). Any questions? No? Good, Now rush off to Our Products and buy it! Oh, wait you got questions... OK so read on: Back to what makes this kit so great: Those familiar with the successful Savage ML-II may recognize some of it's innovative features applied to the Badger Ridge Kit. First should be the bolt nose. The original 700MLS bolt -needs- our bolt nose placed over the bolt body. Its a firm press fit that is also held in place by loctite so it won't move on you (unless you put a torch and a wrench to it). The nose holds the primers firmly in place and 'feeds' them into the breach plug. It works a lot like a single shot rifle, except you slide the primer into and out of the bolt nose. No back pressure will be able to push the primer back and blow combustion gases all over the action because the bolt nose holds it firmly into the breech plug. Next is the breech plug. The original Remington breech plug was designed for percussion caps, not 209 primers. So with this kit the original breach plug is removed and discarded. The kit's breach plug is used in its place. The kit's breech plug is noticeably longer with a nose that protrudes in to the barrel. Thus a specific breech plug is required for each caliber; each kit is caliber specific. The longer length (and larger internal diameter) creates a much larger 'flash chamber' that allows the 209 primer to reach its maximum effectiveness with minimum blow back through the breech plug. And even so, the flash chamber is sealed by the primer so that it functions as a sealed breech system; the primer keeps any blow back inside the flash chamber. The kit's breech plugs have the hole for the primer purposely tight. This is so that it can be 'tuned' to the particular brand of primer you choose. See the info in the references section for more info on tuning your breech plug with a letter "C" drill bit. Also your OEM breech plug wrench (or a 7/16 socket on an extension) can remove or install the kit's breech plug. So no new or additional tools are required. A vent liner is threaded into the end that abuts the powder charge. A vent liner 'focuses' the fire made by the primer into the powder charge. As the vent liner receives a lot of heat and pressure, it erodes over the course of many firings, however it has an 7/64 Allen head that allows removal for cleaning, inspection, and periodic replacement. We provide a Lehigh vent liner with each kit. The Lehigh is regarded by many as the best and is interchangeable with the Savage. A Real Firing Pin!!!Finally we get to the firing pin. Yes it is a real firing pin. I couldn't make myself call the OEM nor the Canadian 209 mod's anything but a striker. The OEM striker is removed and replaced by the kit's firing pin. The kit's firing pin is purposely too long; it will need to be shortened to the proper protrusion and shaped to properly discharge a primer without piercing it. Every kit's firing pin requires fine tuning to the individual bolt. DIY or pay us? You choose!The bolt modifications may be something you do, something you have a gunsmith do, or you can just send us your bolt and for an appropriate fee we'll do the bolt modification. If you choose us, all you'll have to do is purchase the kit with installation, mail us your rifle's bolt, we'll do the modification (we always replace the main spring with a new one) and send it back with a new breech plug and vent liner (see this installation service page for the details). Once you get your bolt, all you'll need to do is assemble the rifle per the Remington 700 ML owners manual (You may need to tune the breech plug with a letter C bit to feed your choice of primers). For you bolt mod Do-It-Your-Selfers, you'll need to drill a hole into the new firing pin during the installation (a bit is provided in the kit), and install the cross pin to hold the firing pin in the cocking piece/firing pin guide. In-case you lose the original bolt's cross pin, a spare roll is included in the kit as well. You will also need a vice with jaws that open atleast 6 inches or a hydraulic press, and the ability to file the firing pin to tolerances held to 1000ths of an inch. A detailed Instruction guide has been posted to the reference pages. Start making Gems out of rough stones!Our Remington 209 Conversion Kit alleviates blow back by solidly holding the primer into the breech plug. It improves the accuracy and the performance of the 209 primer by using an improved breech plug, it promotes longevity by using a common replaceable, inexpensive vent liner, and strikes the primer with a real firing pin. Now you can turn that rifle you couldn't give away into a real performer. So get that old 700ML out from the back of the closet and breathe new life into it with a Hunter Kit. Or when you are walking through the local gun shop and see the lonely 700ML/MLS sitting in the corner with the discount sticker on it, go ahead and pick it up. You know how to turn that rough stone into a gem. Soon in The Badger's Den, I'll get on my stump about the only powder I shoot in my 700MLS: Blackhorn 209.
Can you make it shine? YES! BUT FIRST YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM AND YOUR OPTIONS In 2002 I returned from a 3 year overseas tour. I started my new job as a flight instructor and I started back into my old ways of hunting, fishing, and tinkering with guns. My dad, ever so generous, gave me a muzzle-loader he picked up on the cheap. Remington made a muzzle-loader based off of their bolt action center-fire model 700. The blued steel version was called the 700ML. The stainless version, sometimes called the magnum, was the 700MLS. The benefits of converting a center-fire design to a muzzle-loader were obvious to me:
Before I ever fired it, I read the owners manual, scoured the internet, read forums, and consumed every bit of information I could find. I poured over ChuckHawks article after ChuckHawks article. They were not very kind to the 700ML. I found most who had used the 700ML/MLS had high hopes going in but found it had less than desirable attributes as a muzzle-loader. Hence why my dad was able to pick one up at such a low price. The biggest problems I noted during my research:
(note #3 happens on side locks too, but the orientation of the lock and simplicity of the hammer make it less significant) Black powder residue is corrosive. Blow back throughout the action caused the shooter to have to remove the bolt, disassemble and clean it after shooting the rifle. Failure to clean would certainly result in corroding the striker, spring, and inside of the bolt. Blow back got all over a scope, and some of the blow back could get into the trigger as well. To clean that, one had to remove the barreled action from the stock. This meant that one could possibly shift the zero after every cleaning. I had doubts as to how much, and made sure I used a torque wrench on each action screw. I then scribed a mark on each screw so that I could put them back with in the same tension after a field cleaning without a torque wrench. I didn't know what more I could do. I wasn't to concerned: I'd know if that was going to be a problem after a few range sessions. The Savage design was taking over the market in the center-fire modified to muzzle-loader rifle. It had all the benefits and addressed some of the problems I had read about. But I had a free 700MLS in my hand and a desire to tinker. I knew I could and had to modify it. I took the burs off of the tip of my Bolt Stop Screw with a file, and used a stone to work away the burs and abrasions on the bolt that I made when i misaligned and tightened up the screw. I lubed bolt and the slot the bolt stop screw rides in with anti-seize grease. No problems now, check off #2. I also knew I had 'better' options than black powder. My dad had always used Pyrodex in his traditional side locks. I further researched and decided on Hodgdon Triple Seven. It was available in pellets and granular powder. It also was reported to be 'less' corrosive than black powder and Pyrodex, but still corrosive. I was suspicious of the claim of being "less corrosive" as a possible sales pitch. But when I realized Hodgdon made both Pyrodex and Triple Seven I wasn't as worried; they had a solid reputation. I chose the granular powder because it was cheaper and allowed me to work up a load in smaller increments and see what my rifle would shoot best. For bullets, my research pointed me to MMP sabots and jacketed 45 caliber handgun bullets. I bought rings and put on a solid 4x32 scope. The thing that really needed to go was the #11 percussion cap system. So off I went on my internet search to find a 209 modification for it. And at that time the pickings were slim on conversions (and still are). I found and purchased online what I'll call a "Canadian" 209 kit. There really wasn't any other 209 options. The kit came with a special tool to remove and replace the firing pin/striker with the included striker. It also had a new main spring, a 209 nipple to replace the #11 percussion cap nipple, and a fork to install the nipple and remove fired primers. Once I got the kit, I followed the instructions and I thought I had it whipped... but I really didn't. I went to the range and followed the Remington 700 ML/MLS Owners Manual as I worked up loads. I found that my rifle shot the best at 80 grains. Also there was still a bunch of blow back even at low charges, that worsened as I stepped up the load. As charges increased I started to find fragments of primers in the cavity around the primer holder. So, for many years I used 80 grains of Triple Seven, black MMP sabots, and .45 cal 250gr Hornady XTP bullets. I deformed primers and had blow back, but the rifle was accurate at 80 grains. It was the best I could make of it; hotter loads weren't an option. I killed deer, cleaned the rifle, set the screws back to their scribe indexes and had no problems with point of impact shifts. MY FIRST ATTEMPT (Canadian kit) WAS LESS THAN I HAD HOPEDI was disappointed with the amount of blow back I was getting, and the labor it took to take the rifle apart and clean it. I was always a bit worried I missed something in the bolt and would have a failure to fire at a critical moment... say when the shoulder of a Boone and Crockett trophy was in the cross hairs. Also, after shooting a deer, gutting it, and hauling it out of the woods, I was beat. The last thing I wanted to do was tear down a rifle and clean it. But I did. I had to understand what was happening with the 'Canadian' 209 modification if I was going to do better. The replacement firing pin ended with a large cylinder that had a nipple that fired the primer. The 'Canadian' kit used the original OEM breach plug, but had the replacement 209 nipple threaded into it. It was a bit tricky to get a primer in and the kit came with a fork to remove the spent primer that was also the wrench to snug up the nipple into the breech plug. Extra tools to carry in the field didn't sit well with me, but I put them in my possibles bag. There was a small slot across the face for the fork to engage and a large cut out in the side for a spring to hold the primer in place. When cocked to fire, there was a gap between the striker face and the 209 primer. Nothing held the primer in place besides the spring on the nipple. Also the primer was exposed to the weather unless I used the OEM plastic cover. I had read that the weather shroud was not to be used with 209 primers somewhere, and had entered the land of operating outside the manual. When the rifle fired, the striker sprung forward and struck the primer. With ignition came large pressures that blew the primer out and back against the face of the firing pin. With the firing pin being only held against the primer by spring pressure, the primer could move aft, unseat, and spray blow back. Not to mention the nipple holding it was slotted so that pressure could blow the primer out that way too. It was obvious why I was getting blow back, deformed and blown up primers. This explained why it worsened as I worked up powder charges. So the Canadian 209 modification worked... but was messy, and the primer was exposed unless I took a perceived risk of adding the plastic weather shroud. I also lost the shroud on a hunting trip and had to purchase another. I knew that my rifle returned to zero after I cleaned it. I killed deer, and never had a hang or a miss fire. I loved the trigger, and the feel. But I still wasn't happy with the blow back. I had to find a better way, so I again searched high and low. Eventually I found the best Remington 700ML 209 modification! And that is the subject of my next Badger's Den. Copyright BadgerRidgeInd.com 2015 Thank you for stopping by. Learning my eCommerce site software, and decided to put up a blog. I will posts thoughts, observations, and hopefully useful information here. Please check back!
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