Steve P from Lake Orion, Michigan was so pleased with his Remington 700 ML 209 Conversion he took the time to send us the picture above via Facebook. Here's what he had to say (short, sweet, and to the point): 130 yard shot, 120gr by volume of Black Horn 209, Parker Ballistic Extreme 300gr and the Badger Ridge bolt upgrade, Timney trigger. Wow! Nice Buck! Well Done!
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If you are looking for a great gift to a Remington 700 ML or Ruger 77/50 owner, look no further. Unless they hunt in Oregon, or Idaho (the last two hold outs that don't allow sealed breech 209's), our sealed breech 209 conversion kits are the best thing they could ever have on their rifles! And if they hunt in Oregon/Idaho you could send me their bolt and I'll deep clean it and change the Remington's mainspring. Or I can build an entire new bolt so that they can switch back and forth between the original system and our system. So we have y'all covered too! You may wonder how it works. You can think of having three basic options: Option 1: Buying a DIY kitYou can buy a Remington 700 ML kit as a gift to be installed by the owner or their gunsmith. (option 1) This is your least expensive option. Note, that there is not an "Option 1" for a Ruger as the Ruger's conversion is too complicated. Option 2: Send us the bolt and pay us to convert itYou can purchase our Remington kit, add installation before you check out, and then ship us the bolt. Lets call this option 2. It's in the middle of cost, but very simple as you just have to ship us the bolt, we convert it and send it back. The costs differ but this option is basically the same between the Remington 700 ML and the Ruger 77/50. When it comes to option 2: you send us the bolt, it's converted, then shipped back with the new breech plug/vent liner and other small tools. Of course with the Ruger 77/50, there is no option one. Option 3: Buy a new bolt we build from scratchOption 3 is the most expensive option: buy an already converted bolt with a breech plug. I only recommend option 3 when people hunt in Idaho, or Oregon for some hunts where they have to use exposed caps, but have other hunts where they can seal the breech and use 209's. This option is also viable for folks who have rifles that are missing bolts. We can build bolts for both the Remington 700 ML/MLS and the Ruger 77/50. If you have questions, you probably can find an answer in our FAQ, or within the archives along the right side of these Badger's Den posts. If you aren't finding what you need, you can use the Contact page by clicking here (or under "More" in the banner above) to initiate a conversation. We'll reply with an email answering your question along with our phone number (Sorry but we have to use the contact page to screen telemarketers and scammers). So please take a look at the FAQ before you use the contact form: we'll reply with an email and phone number so you can chat with us. Remember you can always add what you want to your chart, and complete an online check out. Hope this helps and you have a wonderful Christmas & Happy Holidays! I’ve said it here many times. My favorite part of this business is the quality of people it draws. We wouldn’t be here without you, our customer. Our Ruger 77/50 209 conversion came into existence with the help of our first Ruger 209 conversion customer… Here’s how he feels about it. We also have a similar sealed breech 209 conversion for the Remington 700 ML. If you are looking for Remington information, click the link on the right side. A bunch of chit chat with Jason was snipped for brevity (we grew up about 20 minutes from each other, but had never met previously… I also have removed personal info such as, last names, addresses, and phone numbers. I also fixed a few spelling/grammatical errors on both sides). Bottom line: This is indeed a true customer and his feed back. 30 Jan 2017 Name: Jason R Address: Howell, MI Hello, I see you commented on Michigan sportsman forum on a Ruger 77/50 bolt conversion. When will it be available? I have battled misfires since I bought mine years ago. I would love to get it converted. Badger Ridge’s response (30 Jan 17 ): Mr. R, Wow that was fast! I just posted that teaser! Figured I'd offer it up to my 'homeland' hunters first (grew up in Waterford... hunted family farms in Marlette and Pinckney, Michigan when I was a kid) ... so I put the first peek there. Short answer is that I just finished a few tweaks to the kit that should be the end of development and bring it into low rate production. I'm not sure when the shop will be able to get the handful of initial low rate kits to me. Probably a few weeks to a month. Cost will be about $246 on this one... not cheap but well worth it. And due to the complexity I'm not planning on offering it up as a DIY kit... the $246 includes me converting a provided bolt and shipping it back. Let me know if you want to be the first one to get this. Tom Jason’s reply: Hi Tom, Yes I would love to be one of the first. I don't need the bolt until December so let me know when you want it. I am just about giddy with excitement. I was pondering buying a new muzzle loader but my Ruger shoot so well I just hated to. I consider your pricing a bargain versus buying a new Knight which is what I was looking at. Thanks Jason, Ok. Sounds good. I agree about the knight purchase. That is why I'm into 700 ML's and now the Ruger. Seems like a better way to get the about the same performance... especially if you already own the rifle to convert. Tom We wrote back and forth and worked out a couple small growing pains in doing the last bit of developing the kit. (remember he volunteered to be the first customer with this kit and understood it was still needing some final development). Jason was very patient and understanding through out the process. We got it right for everyone here after! Here's what he wrote back to us: Sept 22nd 2017 Hi Tom, [Ruger 77/50] ML shot well. I only shot 3 times, the temperature was 80 degrees with horrible humidity. My glasses were fogging so I did not want to sit and let the barrel cool down between shots. Thanks for all your efforts, cleaning was so much easier and I was able to leave the leather wrap off my scope. Jason R ------- 12 Nov Hi Tom, Just finished cleaning the Ruger after a final sight in before season (15 Nov). I just thought I would drop you a note. Your conversion works very well. Constant ignition shot after shot, no more hang-fires or misfires. This conversion cuts clean up time down by at least 15 minutes. Thanks again for all your hard work. Jason, Thank you for being an awesome, understanding customer. Your patience helped us to develop the best 209 conversion for the Ruger 77/50. We are proud of our product and our awesome customers! Tom After years of selling our Remington 700 ML 209 conversion, and installing many hundreds of them, I still enjoy it when folks take the time to send feed back. I installed our kit on the customer's bolt below. After he got it back, I received the very detailed message shown below (and received permission to share it with you). Subject: Remington 700 ML 209 ConversionBadger Ridge Staff I got to the range yesterday (finally) to do some testing. As expected I had to do just a bit of tuning on the breech plug to allow the primer to fit properly with the provided drill bit. The time at the range sort of got away from me so did not get to test every powder option that I wanted too, however my plan was to end up with Blackhorn 209, so that is what I ended up using for most of the testing. Powders Initially Desired to be Tested Pyrodex Select Powder – did not get a chance to test. Pyrodex Pellets – did shoot one three round group with this powder source Triple Se7en Magnum Pellets – did shoot one three round group with this powder source Blackhorn 209 – Shot 15 loads with this powder Bullets Tested: Barnes - 245 grain - .451 Spit-Fire MZ™ - 1763 fps T/C - 250 grain - .451 Polymer Tip - 1712 fps Harvester - 260 grain - .451 Polymer Tip - 1705 fps I ended up with the Blackhorn 209 powder (100 grains by volume), the Harvester 260 PT Shockwave bullet, and CCI Shotgun Primers giving just under 1.5” groups @ 100 yards. I think I can actually improve on that. I shot 21 rounds with the new 209 Conversion setup and did not experience one misfire of a 209 primer during this testing. Plans are to do some additional testing to build a proper scale as my Bushnell Scope has a BDC reticle. I would also like to revisit the use of Pyrodex & Triple Se7en Magnum pellets as that is a very convenient method to load and/or reload for a second shot versus the Blackhorn 209 loose powder. I did clean between (3) shot groups and was a bit surprised at the amount of “black” residue from the Blackhorn. It did not seem to be any cleaner than the other powder sources. Maybe I was expecting too much from the advertising. The only downside with this new setup is the removal of the fired 209 primers and reloading of a new one seems to take a bit more time than the old #11 percussion caps. However, the greatly improved ignition system and lack of any powder blowback in one’s face is well worth that. Besides, I have not had to use a follow-up shot in all my deer hunting for the past 50 years and do not plan on starting now. From my experience and initial testing, you have a very well designed product and have given my Remington 700 ML new life. Thanks Raymond F Omaha, NE Welcome to The Badger's Den. Normally I discuss our muzzle loader products, with a focus on our sealed breech 209 modifications for Remington 700 ML and the Ruger 77/50. If you don't want to read about a boy's first deer... feel free to click any of the links along the right side which will take you towards the info you are looking for. Today, I just want to brag a little about my oldest son, who shot his first deer over the Special Youth Hunting Weekend. It's a very nice buck! And his very first deer! We were hunting a small 17 acre, swampy, privately owned parcel in the middle of suburbia. The owner (a friend) was getting lots of complaints from the neighbors about deer destroying their gardens. I promised him we could help. He's relieved to tell the complaining neighbors that there is a hunter dealing with the problem. I did the research and from one area in the very middle of the property we were legal to discharge firearms, and if we were 15' up in the air, that firearm could be a rifle. So I put a 15' two man ladder stand there. After being in the stand about 1 hour on the first day of the special youth hunt, some deer came in... but as it was so early in the season, with so much greenery still on the branches is was hard to see what came in. We could only see something brown moving under the lower canopy. Luckily my boy was patient, still, and quiet as he waited for the shot. When this bruiser decided to establish his dominance on a smaller buck, he stopped broadside too us in one of the few areas we had no obstructions. My son chose that moment to send a super sonic 300 BLK round right into his shoulder. He went all of 20 yds (in a circle) and dropped. After getting the buck I realized that it would be appropriate to post about it here. See, that rifle has many things we sell here on it. As my boy barely weighs over 100lbs, he's pretty recoil shy. Thus 300BLK and a suppressor. Nothing reduces felt recoil like a good suppressor. He's just now hitting his growth spurt, and the adjustable stock on the AR works well for growing kids. And seeing the parcel is in the middle of suburbia, the noise suppression took the 'boom' down to hearing safe levels for us*, and a small crack for the neighbors. From muzzle to grip there's stuff we sell in this rifle. I converted a solvent trap to a Form 1 suppressor (and also converted the AR to a Form 1 Short Barreled Rifle). I free floated the fore end with a carbine length quad rail, but softened the grip with our Picatinny Rail covers. I replaced the gritty standard AR trigger with a NM Two Stage trigger from RRA. I tighened the fit between the upper and lower with an accu-wedge, and I replaced the straight slotted screw that held the grip on with the proper hex head head drive cap grip screw too. It is wonderful to see your child succeed. Even more wonderful when he does it by applying the lessons and techniques you try to teach, and while using the tool you conceived of and put together for the task! Truly blessed! *Assuming hearing safe... I don't have a DB meter. There is no doubt its much quieter and better than un-supressed. Tired of miss fires? Tired of blow back in your face and all over you scope? Had enough stripping the bolt and action to clean after every time you shoot? I know I was... until I put this conversion on my 700 ML rifles. Now my Remington 700 ML rifles are the wonderful deer killing machines I knew they could be, and without all the fuss, crud in my face, and 'will it go off' worries i had before! Want to buy a kit? Click here!!! Want to read customer feed back about our kit, try here!!! Want to know more out our 209 conversion kit? Please read my posts here in the Badger's Den and our FAQ. Already have a kit and need some vent liners? We sell them to, and at a great price! Think your vent liner is worn out? It could be. Know for sure with this pin gage! We're always looking to help Remington 700 ML/MLS shooters. So on top of our awesome 209 Conversion Kit, Brand new Bolts, New Bolt Bodies, Mainsprings, Vent liners, etc, we now sell replacement bolt stop cam follower screws. So if you lose yours (we've had a few folks contact us asking for help) we can help you out. We had these made out of 416 Stainless steel to produce something similar to the Remington part #: F99286 Note: Our stainless steel screw will work just fine in blued alloy rifles.
When you run a business, you get to communicate with folks from all walks of life. 99.99% of our customers are truly awesome people. Part of the reason I'm in this business is the sort of people it draws. Again another satisfied customer took some of his time to write in and share what he thought about the Remington 700 ML 209 conversion he bought and installed on his rifle. I asked and he didn't mind if I shared his email here (I did remove most of his last name for some anonymity): Just wanted to let you know I received your 209 conversion for my Remington 700. I installed it at home with the help of your instructions and the online video. It works great. No more failure to fires due to the weak #11 caps. It shoots every time. Period. No misfires. I know it's not the cheapest kit, but I'm confident I won't have to worry. I'd buy it again without hesitation. It's a great product. Thanks again. Mike G, from Wisconsin Thank you Mike for the positive feedback! We aim to please. Like you said, quality costs, our kit is not only quality and made in the USA but it's also the solid fix to all the Remington 700 ML's initial flaws. It gives me the confidence to reliably harvest animals. We'd love to see pics of your successes!
Before we only offered a 209 conversion for the Remington 700 ML. But now I'm happy to announce that we now offer a similar sealed breech 209 system for the Ruger 77/50! Much like the Remington 700 ML and 700ADL, Ruger sold a muzzle loader that looks a lot like the Ruger 77/44: the Ruger 77/50. According to the Ruger website, it was in production from 1997-2004. Judging by serial number data no where near as many were made as the 700ML. The Ruger functioned very similar to the Remington, and even had a breech thread that allowed use of 700ML breech plugs. (Not that we nor the manufacturer are endorsing that. It's just so similar it's possible). Thus these rifles had many of the same problems as the Remington 700 ML: Blow-back, frequent misfires, and factory setups that didn't have 209 options. So when Ruger owners find the Badger Ridge Industries 209 kit for the Remington 700ML, they often contact us and ask if we can make a similar "seal up the breech, BlackHorn209 compatible, finger simple prime de-prime system" for the Ruger 77/50. Now, I'm proud to say "YES WE CAN!" In order to develop and prove out our sealed breech 77/50 209 conversion a few 77/50's were purchased and converted by Fred and myself. Having a couple of centerfire Ruger 77 MKII's that I've hunted with for years, in many ways the 77/50 didn't feel like a totally new rifle to me, even though it was a 'totally new' rifle to me. And while on the surface it works similar to the Remington, and the breech plug threads of both are essentially identical, the 77/50 is a very different rifle to convert. As the rifle came from the factory, or even when modified with a Canadian 209 system, the warning about "Hot Gases Exit Nipple Area" excerpted from the 77/50 manual rings true and must be heeded. Hot gasses and pieces of primers/caps being blown back and around the nipple and the associated fouling are some time referred to as "blow by". However I find it seems more accurate to call it "Blow Back". The later version of the 77/50 used a protrusion on the bolt itself to try and direct the blow back to the side of the rifle. And while it does accomplish this, it also directs blow-back into the bolt. The bolt has a vent in the bolt body that directs the blow back that enters it down and into the stock! So as delivered from Ruger, blow back gets in the bolt, and is even directed down and into the inner recesses of the rifle! This complicates cleaning and over the long term reduces the reliability of the system. So compared to the Remington we had to modify the Ruger's bolt much more to get a 209 system that seals the breech and is more reliable. The main reason to switch to our system is not only to use 209 primers, but to seal up the breech area and essentially eliminate all of the blow back issues. 209 primers are hotter and more reliable source of ignition. Using them to seal blow back into the breech plug vastly simplifies cleaning and makes the rifle safer and more reliable. Our conversion seals out the elements and allows one to shoot Blackhorn 209 powder. Which in my opinion is the best black powder substitute available. The Canadian 209 system and the original cap system are not Blackhorn 209 compatible, and they allow blow back into all those nooks and crannies. Remember, blow-back not only can injure a shooter or by stander, but it can burn the optics mounted above the breech, project corrosive fouling throughout the bolt and action, and wear out a mainspring prematurely. Even worse, the Ruger 77/50 is known to have an additional deficiency: Blow back launches the firing pin rearward and occasionally shears the trigger's sear! Our conversion for the Ruger 77/50 fixes all of these woes by sealing the blow back into the breech plug with the 209 primer! The conversion process requires the bolt to be completely stripped, our new firing pin to be installed, the extended shroud to be cut off, and the nose of the bolt dressed. Then the 209 nose is timed to align it for loading and unloading, pressed on, and firing pin protrusion set. So once complete there really isn't any going back. But once the converted rifle is shot, I'm sure no one will ever want to go back to the leaky original set up! Our Ruger 77/50 conversion is through its first rounds of testing but is still in what the DoD would call LRIP (low rate initial production). I'm not comfortable sending this one out for just anyone to install, and for now, will only offer it as a full conversion service. Or in other words, I'm not willing to sell this one as a kit; you will have to pay me to install it. The Ruger conversion uses a very similiar breech plug to the one used in our Remington system: If you are interested in making your rifle work the way you always wanted it to, and Blackhorn 209 compatible, you can purchase Ruger 77/50 conversion as a service (very similar to our Remington 700ML conversion service). Mail us your bolt, we'll convert, and send it back with the breech plug, vent liner, and other accessories. The details are all in the listing for this service!
We also can ship an entire new 209 converted bolt to you if you want to keep the original leaky system, or are missing a bolt etc. That is more expensive than converting an existing bolt. We do not recommend this unless you hunt out west where leaky non 209 systems are required for special hunts, but on others you can use our sealed breech 209 system. And as always feel free to use the Contact form to send me your info. I'll call or email back promptly. I always enjoy hearing from our customers. This time, Mike A from New York, who had me convert his Remington 700 ML to our 209 conversion over a year ago, took the time to write in. To me, it says a lot about your product when people love it so much they take their time to write a thank you note. I can just say, "Thank you for being a great customer!" The message I received from Mike A, New York is below: QUESTION OR COMMENT FOR BADGER RIDGE: Just a positive comment... You converted my Rem. 700 ML a few years ago. I've taken it into the field for a few years now during deer season, and to the range about once a month for those same number of years. Essentially, with 90 grs. of BH 209, 300 gr. Hornady XTPs, MMP EZ load sabots, and CCI 209 Magnum primers, the result with a low ringed scope is clover leafing dead center at 50 yds. And dead center adjusted up + 3" at 100 yds. The holes are paper punch clean. The gun is competitive with any of the other BP guns I own. It is fun to shoot. You turned the firearm from a tomato stake to a reliable, easy to clean, accurate, easy to use gun. Thank you. Mike A New York Thanks again for writing in. All of my rifles have shot best between 80 and 100 grains by volume of Blackhorn 209 as well. Glad you are satisfied! From what I've been able to gather there is a good bit of variation on how people learn about our awesome 209 conversion. While we have a lot of repeat customers, and folks learning about us through word of mouth, most arrive here after an internet search. Frequently newcomers are having problems with their rifle and looking for replacement parts or guidance on how to troubleshoot their woes. If you are tired of blow-back (aka blow-by), blowing up 209 primers, priming/de-priming tools, having misfires, hang-fires, bloopers, or trouble setting off Blackhorn209: Our kit is the fix, but it's not a $20 solution. I understand the desire to find a $20 fix, but for the 700 ML/MLS, especially with the many years they all have on them now, there isn't a $20 fix. A lot of folks who end up here realize quickly that our kit is the right solution, but for others they are stuck on the $20 fix. A good analogy is if this were cars... sometimes it feels like some folks are skeptical I am ethical when I tell them an entire drive train overhaul is required; they are looking for wheel weights to stop a wheel vibration. The truth is: the reason it's throwing wheel weights is that it has a bad drive train! We can fix it, and you'll love your rifle afterward. Trust me; take the time to understand the problem isn't the wheel weights! You get what you pay for!There are so many little flaws in the original system: blowback getting into the bolt, shooter's eyes, and burning the scope are chief among them. Then they get amplified with age, corrosion, use, and abuse; as soon as one is fixed another will creep up. Then the rifle doesn't go bang when desired. So it doesn't make sense to spend a dime to keep the original system running. The only exception is when someone hunts out west where some hunts prohibit 209 primers or sealing of the breech. But even for those folks we offer entire 209 converted sealed breech bolts and breech plugs so they can switch to sealed breech on hunts where it's legal, and keep their original system for hunts that it is not. One rifle can meet both requirements with a bolt and breech plug swap. But therein lies the rub... a small minority -have to- keep the original system running for those special hunts. So for those select few I'll share how I'd try to keep the original system functioning (though my goal is to get those non 209, non sealed breech states to come to their senses and convert every Remington 700 ML to our sealed breech system). What I would do if forced to keep the original system running:My goal here is to help you understand where the original goes wrong, and unless you hunt out west this should also show you why you need to dump the original and use our 209 conversion. But here we go: - If legal I'd use 209's; if the rules prohibit 209's then i would use musket caps. I'd dump any #11 percussion cap system. 209's and musket caps are hotter and more reliable than #11's. The nipple can be removed from the breech plug with wrenches. One must be careful not to damage any threads. New breech plugs are available if the nipple won't come out. I'd put a small dab of anti-seize (or choke tube lube) on the threads of the new nipple so I could replace it later when it mushrooms. And it will mushroom. - Unless someone has owned the rifle since it was new, they don't know what sort of swapping and fiddling has been done to it. Not all strikers are equivalent, nor do they all work with the same primers/caps and nipples. Remington had two different firing pins for the rifle. Their first version only did percussion caps, then they released the 3 way system where one pin could discharge all three (209's, #11's, & Musket Caps). Plus the Canadian mod is out there as well, but it only does 209's. I've seen rifles with the original flat firing pins installed with 209 nipples. The folks who had this set up contacted me complaining that the rifle wouldn't fire! Of course it won't fire with the wrong firing pin! Remember, the Remington 3 way ignition system had a raised central area for discharging the 209's, and also worked with both types of caps. But it needs to be coupled with the proper Remington style 209 holder. The Canadian won't work unless its coupled with it's unique primer holder. Whatever leaky original system used, it'll need priming de-priming tools as well. Who wants to try and find all that for a reload in the field? The original system is known for blowing up primers and needing special picks and tools to prime and de-prime the rifle. - I'd completely disassemble and clean the bolt and firing pin assembly. That means tearing the assembly totally down, scrub and clean all fouling and corrosion from every nook and cranny, and replace the mainspring. Our installation tutorial will prove useful here. If that is too much for you to do, I can replace the mainspring on your bolt for you. - I always ensure the rifle is unloaded and empty, and in a safe area I shoot some caps/209's to ensure the rifle will set them off. Remember even caps/primers will shoot things out the barrel with enough energy to hurt, maim, or blind. So if you decide to to this, ensure the rifle is unloaded per the procedures in the manual, keep the rifle pointed in a safe direction, and at a proper back stop. -Crud and misshaped nipples prevent caps/primers from properly seating. Then when the striker hits them instead of detonating, it pushes them forward towards a proper seat. Then once seated, a subsequent strike can set it off. Sometimes the nipples/primer holders get so mashed there is no saving them. I'd clean out any crud, and correct misshaped nipples (I'd say its usually best just to replace with a new nipple). - If the first strike doesn't set off the cap/209, I'd try a second, third, fourth, or fifth before trying another cap/primer. If a subsequent strike on the same cap detonates it, I'd suspect a misshapen nipple/primer holder. If none of them set it off, it could be the nipple or it could be the bolt/mainspring (but with a good tear down, correction to any corrosion, goo, fouling, proper lubrication and new mainspring, I'd suspect the problem lies in the the nipple). The repeated strikes the nipple receives eventually mushroom and mis-shape it. Even the 209 holders/nipples suffer this fate. Though the Canadian system will probably outlast the Remington vented 209 primer holder. But that is just degrees of bad... I wrote about how bad the Canadian conversion was in one of my first posts to this blog. - Each time the original system is fired, blow-back pulses the mainspring back and away from the nipple. At higher loads it can even drive back the firing pin into your thumb if you were to place it near the tang! (It hurts... trust me) These cycles and extreme compression coupled with the heat and corrosion then deteriorate mainspring life. Blow back coats the firing pin assembly in a corrosive sticky mess. I would tear down and clean after each time the rifle is shot, and I'd do a complete tear down and get everything out of every nook and cranny after each season. Blow back will find its way into the inner recesses of the bolt plug and cocking piece... trust me on this. I've torn hundreds of 700 ML bolts down. I'd replace the mainspring on the original system every few years. Again, I can do that for you if you like. Why our system is betterSo with the variations of the original system a shooter will have all those issues to deal with and think through. Once they fix one, soon another will creep up and cause issues. Those are a lot of inherent pit falls. All the while dealing with the blow back shooting into the bolt, a shooter's face, and all over the scope. Seems much smarter to me to rid oneself of that entire mess, use our sealed breech 209 system, and not be forced to strip a bolt down every time you shoot. Why don’t we sell any replacement parts for the original system nor the Canadian? I don't like to sell things I don't believe in nor use my self. Though the main spring is the same and we will replace it for you regardless of what system you use. I don’t want to be on the hook to keep something running that is flawed at its core, so I don't sell or support it beyond changing mainsprings. But I'll gladly replace the old leaky system with our sealed breech 209 system for you. Any state forcing folks to use that sort of system is beyond logic to me. Our 209 system seals the blow back in, which vastly reduces bolt strip downs and cleaning. With our system one only needs fingers to prime/de-prime, and the only parts that wear are the 209 primer (which is discarded after every use), the vent liner which is cheap and easy to replace (and the rifle will still go bang when its time to replace it), and arguably eventually someone will have to replace the mainspring. Mainsprings always have a finite life. It is true on any center-fire rifle; springs will eventually wear out. However the mainspring lasts much longer in our conversion because it is spared all the extra cycles, heat, and corrosive blow-back of the original. Also even if someone was to fail to seal the blow back in with our system (i.e. it seeped around a primer somehow), the bolt nose and the 209 primer itself essentially block any blow back from making it inside the bolt. With our system a shooter only has to tear the bolt down and clean it as often as they would a center fire rifle... which is not that often, perhaps as often as replacement of the main spring is required on a center-fire 700. You don’t have to take my word for it, you can read our customer feedback section and see for yourself in the video below. The Remington 700 ML 209 shot shell conversion kit we sell is very different from the original rifle's system, or any other 209 systems available for the 700 MLS. Our system uses a bolt nose that holds and feeds the primers into our unique breech plug. The action of the bolt swages the 209 primer into the breech plug; sealing it up, and essentially eliminating blow back. Thus it requires a little different maintenance than the original system. Most of that is due to our breech plug being of a different design: It uses a vent liner. So people only familiar with the old system, do have a new component and some learning to do. But it's not hard; it is simple breech plug maintenance. The instructions that come with the kit explain this, and it gets into more depth in our Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ). There is a lot of good reading in our FAQ but I wanted to emphasize it again here. Excerpted from the instructions that come with the kit: Breech plug maintenance: After firing 209 primers, burnt priming compound will coat the flash chamber & the flash hole of the Vent Liner. To clean: remove the breech plug & ream the flash chamber gently with a just under size drill bit (7/32). Use torch tip cleaners to clean the vent liner. Scrub & remove all fouling with the appropriate solvents, & place anti seize on all breech plug/vent liner threads before using the breech plug. Eventually the vent liner will wear out; it should be replaced when it’s interior has opened to .036” or accuracy will suffer. Always use a vent liner in the breech plug, or you may see excessive/unsafe pressures at the primer!!! None of this is new to anyone who has owned or used many of the newer designs that use 209's to seal up the breech. Here is an generic breech plug maintenance image from Blackhorn209.com: The main difference between our breech plug and the generic one above it that ours uses a vent liner to form the flash hole. This is because each shot erodes away part of the flash hole, and if the flash hole was machined into the breech plug eventually the entire breech plug would require replacement. It's much better to only have to purchase an inexpensive common vent liner, over replacing an entire breech plug. So that leaves the question: "When is it time to replace the vent liner?" The simple answer is when its interior has opened up to .036. Vent liners start at about .030 and open up oh so little with each shot. We sell .036 ZZ gauge pins to help you determine when its time to replace them. Alternatively when you use torch tip cleaners to clean the vent liner, you can measure the largest one that will pass through. When its .036 or larger, replace the vent liner. Or in other words, if the .036 ZZ pin gage passes through, replace the vent liner. If you don't replace the vent liner when it opens to .036 you can expect a drop in accuracy. If you keep shooting you'll continue to open it up, accuracy will degrade, and back pressure will start deforming primers. You can read more about this in the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
This time Jessica A, from Virginia wrote to us on FaceBook concerning the Remington 700ML/MLS 209 Shot Shell Primer Conversion I performed on her bolt. Check out her nice buck below! Thanks a million! I had no worries about my gun firing this year. The Remington 700ml 209 conversion did the trick! Jessica A, Virginia Jessica reached out to us a few months back via our contact form. She had a lot of good questions. I answered them via email and gave her my phone number. She called. During our chat she mentioned that she'd missed a few bucks due to miss fires and was ready for a better solution. She purchased our Remington 700ML kit with installation, and sent me her bolt. I converted it and sent it back with the breech plug and other accouterments. It's always great to have happy clients... most especially nice when they share that they bagged nice trophies! It's great to have clients that 'like us' on FaceBook. It really helps to build a business and we aim to please!
I'd like to interrupt my normal blogging about our Remington 700 ML 209 conversion kit and post this in remembrance of a classmate, Brian R. Hoke, USNA '96 (Who pummeled me in Plebe boxing, but still was my friend through graduation.):
A Virginia community is mourning the death of a former Navy SEAL.
Brian Hoke, 42, of Leesburg, Virginia, died in Afghanistan, his father confirmed. No details were released about the cause of Hoke's death. Hoke was a 1996 graduate of the United States Naval Academy. He went on to become a Navy SEAL. He left the military in 2002 and had worked for the U.S. State Department, with many overseas deployments. Hoke's funeral was held Sunday [30 Oct 2016] at the Naval Academy. He is survived by his wife and three children. American flags lined the streets of Hoke's neighborhood on Monday in his memory. Source: Virginia Serviceman Dies in Afghanistan | NBC4 Washington http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Former-Navy-SEAL-Killed-in-Afghanistan-399377071.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_DCBrand#ixzz4OnCw1DWN
Rest in Peace Classmate.
Always enjoy helping customers. It really seems like plain 'ol good Americans like to shoot muzzle loaders, and many of them have the old Remington 700 ML/MLS and are tired of unreliable ignition, crud in their face, and scopes getting eaten by blow back. They are looking for the better solution we offer. Below is a recent email from a repeat customer, Dennis, from North Carolina, who bought our Remington 700 209 Conversion Kit and installed it himself: Shot my first Blackhorn 209 through Rem 700MLS on Saturday after upgrade with your kit. No misfires or problems of any kind on 3 shots and all between 1852 and 1879 fps with 70gn by weight (to test) and 240gn HP/XTP. Was a little slower than expected based on experience with Pyrodex. But, I think I have room in BH 209 powder charge to get back to 2000 fps safely and…. I can give away my protective scope wraps. Primers slip in and literally fall out if I turn gun over. Bolt disassembly is no longer part of each cleaning. Good product. Firing pin install was a little tricky but overall installation not too bad. Best regards, Dennis Thanks for the positive feed back, Dennis! As you are using BH 209 by weight, and 70gr by weight = 100gr by volume (equivalent black powder is measured by volume, not weight), you can increase your load by working up to 120gr by volume according to Western Powders. So you have more room to increase velocity if that is your desire. Most of my 700 MLS rifles have shot best at 80 to 100 gr by volume of Blackhorn209. For those of you who don't want the hassle of installing the firing pin and nose to your bolt, we offer installation of the kit for reasonable fees and have great turn around times. Videos of our 209 kit in action are below: With our 700ML 209 ignition upgrade we try to keep it simple and yet very effective. And frankly we are proud of it. We understand that its going to be new to most folks. Though we do have a number of repeat customers, who realize once they see our 209 conversion in action realize how great it is, and start buying up used 700ML's. Below I've put together a fairly common exchange for the benefit of the newcomer (and yes, did some editing for clarity and to protect the client's identity, etc). 28 July You've just received a new submission to your Contact Form. Submitted Information: Name Ken G Question or Comment First, I would like to thank you for your service and hope it has been as rewarding as the 22 years I spent serving our country. I just received the full 209 conversion kit I purchased a couple of days ago. I am now opting to have it professionally installed - hopefully by you. Is it possible to return the kit along with my bolt and payment to you for the service? Thank you in advance. Kenny G 28 July, From BadgerRidge to Kenny G: ------------------------------------ Mr. G, Thanks for your service. You certainly can have me install your kit. Please purchase installation at our website with a note saying that you will ship the kit with the bolt. Then drop it all in the mail to me. I appreciate your business! Tom (phone number removed.... if you want it, send me a contact form) 28 July, Kenny G's following messages to Badger Ridge. ------------------------------- Thanks Tom. I will do just that. Ken --then I received his bolt, converted it and mailed it back to him the day after receiving it, he got automated emails with tracking information I received this on 04 August : Tom, I got my bolt back today! That was a very quick turn-around. Haven’t installed it yet but will this weekend. Thanks for the great service. I will send pix if I am successful this season. Take care and God bless. Ken --then he sent on Sept 2nd -- Hello again, Just following up and saying thanks again. I installed my newly modified bolt and breech plug, mounted a Nikon 3-9x40 and went to the range. I only had 245gr Aero tip Powerbelts and used 100gr Pyrodex and the Winchester 209s. Yes, they stuck just as you stated so, thanks for the tip on getting them out. Barring the sticking primers, all worked well at the range. I zeroed with 3 shots. Shots 4&5 overlapped in the bull. I have been looking – in vain for CCI Primers in my area but had to settle on 777. They seem to work. I’ll take them to the range soon. Eager to go hunting with it. Got some really nice bucks on camera. J I would like to take this opportunity to wish you and your family a safe and happy holiday. Take care and God bless. Ken After I asked (and he agreed) that it was OK to share our correspondence here in the Badger's Den, he sent me the sight in pic above and the pic below of his latest mod. Seems since sighting in at 50 he's decided to spruce the rifle up a bit: From Tom to Kenny G: What you have now definitely works, and you may have some Pyrodex to shoot up before you are ready, but my parting recommendation is: Get some Black Horn 209, full powered 209 primers (best CCI, like you saw the Winchester tend to stick and require a dry fire to remove) , black sabots, and 225 to 300 gr 45 cal hand gun bullets and shoot some groups at 100 yds with different bullets by starting at 80gr by volume, and working up to 120gr by volume. Zero the load that shot best a couple to three inches high at 100yds. Go home clean the rifle up; you have a sealed breech a deer hammer to take to the woods. Thanks for being a great, understanding client. Please keep me posted and let me know how I can help. Tom A few days ago I got a call from a very nice fella out west. He wanted me to send him an entire new bolt. Always wanting to help, I assured him I could build and send him a brand new bolt for his Remington 700ML, but I wasn't convinced he needed to spend that much. I inquired further. Seemed he was having some trouble because the bolt was frozen and wouldn't come apart. He said the worst part was that he let a "gunsmith" that promised to convert it to 209's take a crack at it, but he had failed, damaged it severely, and promised him there was no hope for it. After chatting more with him he decided to take my advice. Instead of purchasing a complete new bolt (much more expensive) he purchased a conversion kit with installation, sent me his bolt, and let me have a crack at it. I explained that If I couldn't use it, I'd refund his money per the terms of use, and then he could buy a new bolt being assured there was no hope. If I fixed it and it took a bit more of my time or replacement parts I stock, we'd work it out. He explained that the bolt plug was torn up and not serviceable and the cocking piece was frozen in it. I let him know that the standard 700 bolt plug would work, and I had them on hand. Once I saw the bolt and got into it I'd know what was usable and we'd talk about converting it or just sending an entire new bolt out. When the bolt arrived a few days later it was clear that the bolt plug was unscrewed from the body but the firing pin was stuck inside the body, and the body was packed solid with old fouling and years of corrosion. Seeing the firing pin would rotate but not move in nor out, it was free of the mainspring but the mainspring was bound to the bolt body. The customer was right: whoever clamped down on the bolt plug had squished it so much the cocking piece couldn't move. They also hammered on the back and deformed it. Getting the cocking piece to protrude enough to expose the cross pin was going to be a chore! But first things first, got to get the mainspring to move in the bolt body. It was corroded solid and wouldn't budge. So I started the over night soak in penetrating oil. And got on with other things. After having my coffee and breakfast the next morning I went out to the shop while it was still cool and got to work. I held the bolt in my vice with some rubber jaw pads so I wouldn't add to the marring. Then some persuasion was applied by a hammer directly to the face of the stuck firing pin. I used an old firing pin out of my junk bin as a punch. I got the firing pin to move along the axis of the bolt body and compress the mainspring just a bit. That was all I needed. Still firmly held in the vice with rubber jaw pads, the nose up, and the plug down, I tied on some wire onto the bolt plug. Then hung a very heavy weight on it to counter act the main spring and always have a 'firm hand' pulling the firing pin out of the body. Then I added some more penetrating oil and a few more taps. Followed by rapidly lifting and dropping the weight to create a pumping action via the mainspring. The movement increased ever so slightly as the crud pumped out. The penetrating oil filled the tip of the bolt with brown-orange corroded mess which I cleaned out and replaced with fresh penetrating oil, and repeated the love taps and lifting and dropping the heavy weight. Each tap sprayed a bit of penetrating oil, but who doesn't love the smell of penetrating oil in the morning?!?!?! I repeated pumping, cleaning the crud, and refilled with fresh oil. I continued until I could get about a 1/4" of movement on it, but then it just wouldn't go any more. So I went "nuclear" on it! I made up a jig out of scrap to hold the bolt body between the bolt plug and the body. Made sure it contacted the body, and not the handle (the OEM bolt body handles are only silver soldered on... if you put too much pressure on a handle it will pop clean off... if you break one off, don't worry we can TIG weld it back on for you!). Then I put it in my 12 ton hydraulic press, placed a tip of an old firing pin between the ram and the firing pin and pressed. It wouldn't budge pass the 1/4" of travel I had earlier. So I backed off and repeated applying pressure... by the third or fourth cycle it broke free! I had the firing pin loose!!! Some times you got to nuke 'em from orbit. Now that I had it apart it was clear that the bolt had a old "Canadian" 209 conversion. I wrote about how disappointed I was with the "Canadian" 209 conversion I purchased over 12 years ago in one of my first posts to this blog. It seems that someone used the rifle but didn't clean up afterwards, then eventually the corrosive blow back fused the mainspring to the bolt body. By putting the bolt in my vice nose up, and affixing a heavy weight to the bolt plug with some wire I was able to pump the crud out in front of the fused area and got some movement. But I needed the 12 ton press to finish it off.
Remember our kit seals the blow back into the breech plug, so you don't get it inside the bolt body! Luckily once I got it all cleaned up, there was only some light pitting on the inside of the bolt body. I spent more time cleaning up all the marring and mashed bits on the body with a fine file than I spent cleaning up the massive amount of gunk. Oh, and I had to chase the 1/2x13 threads with tap to fix where all the pounding on the bolt plug previous to me had damaged them. But that also cleaned out all the gunk that had collected in them. Getting the cocking piece out of the damaged bolt plug was a minor challenge. First I just cut the firing pin's large end off and pulled off what was left of the main spring. Then opened the groove in the bolt plug that the cocking piece rides in with a wedge and some love taps. The cocking piece moved freely now, but was still captured in the bolt plug because the previous "gunsmith's" pounding on the rear peened over the back of it. So I reamed it out with some large drill bits until the cocking piece came out with the little bit of firing pin still connected to it. Then it was a simple placing of the firing pin in my vice and driving the cross pin out. The cocking piece was in really good shaped despite all the mayhem that had ensued around it. Seeing the customer had the forethought to include a new Remington 700 stainless bolt plug, the assembly from here was the same as any conversion. For details see our online conversion instructions. The completed bolt is below. We sell our Remington 700ML 209 conversion to folks who hunt all 50 states and even Canada. And I must say that I've seen some states make folks jump through a bunch of hoops, while others don't. Its all tied to each state's rules varying drastically. Some are simple, common sense, and easy to follow (and I expect easy for their game wardens to enforce). Others, require someone to have a law and engineering degree to determine what they can take to the field for any given hunt. (You can read more about our 209 conversion by clicking the image above) So if you are considering our conversion, I hope to help those who live in those troubled states with some simple facts: 1. Our system uses 209 shot shell primers 2. It completely seals the 209 primer into the breech plug 3. These rifles we convert use inline actions 4. You can use any Black Powder or black powder substitute with our kit (Pellets, loose powder, whatever... just follow the Remington manual/directions on the bottle for quantity of powder to use) So for most states and most hunts, you won't find a better option than our 209 conversion. It will take the old Remington 700ML/MLS and Ruger 77/50 and turn them into reliable big game harvesting brutes. However you are responsible for researching the rules for your individual state. The main question should be "Do the rules allow 209 shot shell primers? Next question would be "Does it prohibit sealed in-line ignition systems?" As far as I know Canada, and most of the US allows sealed breech 209s. I think Idaho, Oregon are the only exceptions to sealed breech 209's (and that is only on some dedicated muzzle loader hunts... ie you can use a sealed breech muzzle loader during the regular firearms seasons in many states). There are other special hunts in other states (Pensylvania, Montana, etc) that don't allow inlines much less 209's... but we'll ignore them (because they already ban the 700 ML/MLS and Ruger 77/50's just for being in-lines). So long as you can use 209's and seal them up, you won't find a better option for your rifle. If you hunt somewhere where you can use sealed ignition on one hunt but not another, we sell entire bolts so you can swap the rifle between sealed 209's and the original leaky OEM system. Trying to better understand our clients' needs, I've spent the last few hours reading the various rules the 50 states have for muzzle-loader hunts. I lack the literary skill to describe the dull throbbing pain those regulations produced in my skull. I appreciate simple common sense approaches to regulations, so I feel it's time to get on my soap box: It seems traditionalists with lofty notions have hi-jacked hunting regulations in some states, and verbose rule writers dominate most others. To me, hunting regulations should be simple and boil down to promoting the safe and effective harvesting of the right number of game animals in a jurisdiction. I believe in individual freedoms, and always felt hunting, and the choices I made while hunting were a great expression of that freedom. So I don't understand why anyone would stand by and allow their state to -force- people into using ignition systems, powders, or projectiles that would be anything other than those most probable to make a safe, quick, humane kill. I'm all for those who want to do it like their forefathers did. But to force anyone to hunt in that manner, especially if it is less effective, is nuts. There is a reason we developed better ignition systems, better powder, and projectiles: its called progress. Today we have better options that kill better, make better wound channels, and tend to produce less lost or wounded game. These same better ways are safer, and don't blast the shooter with blow back and primer fragments. Those traditionalist ideals seem to have produced regulations that go counter to safe, humane kills, and true liberty. Some would argue that complex regulation that forces old, out-dated, less effective means, reduces the number of game taken. I can see restricting someone to a single shot rifle with open sights doing that, but other wise, I doubt that prohibiting modern sabots, hand gun bullets, etc will reduce the number of game shot at. So I'd argue that the rules that force traditional solutions probably increase the number of animals wounded and lost. And thus they probably reduce the number of game that get drug out of the woods. On the surface that produces statistics that say the number of animals taken was reduced. The significant difference being: the wounded animals that are not recovered are not recorded as kills. Wounded animals typically suffer a slow painful death. Making regulations that encourage wounding game is a shame. It's especially shameful quoting tainted statistics to make the case. I haven't seen a state with ideal regulations but I think Wyoming's was as a simple as they get. You can be sure sure you are in compliance, and game wardens know what to enforce:
“For taking of bighorn sheep, elk moose, mountain goat, black bear, grizzly bear, deer, mountain lion, antelope or gray wolf by the use of a firearm a hunter shall use: Any muzzle-loading rifle or muzzleloading pistol handgun of at least .40 caliber and firing a lead or expanding point bullet using a charge of at least 50 grains of black powder or its equivalent.” And while I don't endorse the stuff below that prohibits multiple barrels, or restricts propellants (some rifles are designed to use smokeless powder: they produce more energy, and thus are more humane killers). Anyways I am partial to how Utah's reads and gives solid guidance on projectile selection to promote humane kills: “To hunt big game with a muzzleloader, your muzzleloader must meet all of the following requirements: It can be loaded only from the muzzle and can use either open sights, peep sights, or fixed or variable zoom scope. It can have only one barrel, and the barrel must be at least 18 inches long. It cannot be capable of firing more than once without being reloaded. The powder and bullet — or powder, sabot and bullet — cannot be bonded together as one unit for loading. It must be loaded with black powder or a black powder substitute. The black powder or black power substitute cannot contain smokeless powder, but may contain some nitrocellulose. To hunt big game, you must use a lead or expanding bullet or projectile that’s at least 40 caliber in size. If you’re hunting deer or pronghorn, your bullet must be 130 grains or heavier, or your sabot must be 170 grains or heavier. If you’re hunting elk, moose, bison, bighorn sheep or Rocky Mountain goats, you must use a 210-grain or heavier bullet, or a sabot bullet that’s at least 240 grains.” Truly over all, I favor Virgina's rules; I wish all 50 states would adopt them as I feel they are a good balance on allowing freedom of choice but guaranteeing common sense, killing power (sorry muzzle loading pistol guys), and safety. I think they do a good job of bringing clarity to folk who are familiar with the issues and variety of rules from across the nation: “Only muzzleloading firearms, .45 caliber or larger, loaded from the muzzle of the gun. Muzzleloading firearms must be single shot, capable of firing only a single bullet or saboted bullet (.38 caliber or larger). Flintlock, percussion, or electronic ignitions are permitted. It is unlawful to have in immediate possession any firearm other than a muzzleloading gun while hunting with a muzzleloader. (See exception for valid concealed handgun permit holders on page 18.) It is unlawful to use muzzleloading pistols. Must use at least 50 grains of black powder or black powder equivalent. Smokeless powder is allowed in muzzleloading firearms designed for it. Never use smokeless powder of any type in any quantity in a muzzle-loading firearm that is not specifically designed for it. Scopes are permitted. For the purposes of transportation in a vehicle, muzzleloading firearms are considered “unloaded” when all powder has been removed from the flashpan, or the percussion cap, primer, or battery has been removed from the firearm. For complete safety, shooting into soft ground should empty a muzzleloader” I'm sure any state could care less about my opinion. If you live in a state with crazy muzzle loader regulations that just don't make sense, I urge you to engage your legislature and adopt a simple solutions that promote quick safe humane kills over traditional ideals like those I offer above. Regulations change, and errors can be made. Please read your states rules and don't rely on anything I posted here as being infallible. Last Edit: Dec2021 to add Montana to the list of states with silly regs. We always love feedback on our products. Especially when its positive... here is what Mike C from Vermont had to say about his Remington 700 ML we converted to 209 primers and sent back to him: Thank you so much, got my bolt today. Installed the new bolt, and breech plug, off to the range I went. 100 grains by volume of blackhorn 209, CCI standard shotshell primer, and a Hornady SST low drag sabot 300gr bullet. You transformed my gun into a tack driver, hard to believe it’s the same gun!!!! No ignition problems at all, and clean up was a breeze, do not understand why any one would use something other than Blackthorn 209 powder. Thanks again for the install. Mike
For an undecided limited time we are including a couple extras in our Remington 700 MLS 209 ignition upgrade kit for the same price!!As seen above, for a limited time (I'm thinking "Turkey Season") we'll throw in a 7/64 Hex L wrench (made in USA by the way) and a letter "C" drill bit (useful for tuning the breech plug as needed) as part of our Remington 700 ML 209 primer system.
Please click here to visit the item's page in our store for more details! With our Remington 700 ML 209 conversion kit, we get very few complaints or requests for assistance compaired to the number of kits sold and installed. The few instances usually are tied to not fully comprehending the kit's components and how to maintain them. Of these, most center around the Badger Ridge Hunter 209 Breech plug. There is a good section in our FAQ on the breech plug and how to maintain it. The other complaints center around not understanding the subtle differences when using Blackhorn209. TROUBLE SHOOTING AND COMMON MISTAKESYou must read and understand the Remington 700ML owners manual prior to using our conversion kit. Using our 209 conversion replaces the breech plug; so you have to apply what the Remington 700ML Owner's Manual says about nipples, flash holes, and caps to flash channels, vent liners, and 209 primers. Failure to Fire, Misfires, Hang-Fires, Bloopers, etc: Typically these sorts of malfunctions are caused by one or a combination of: -1. Using blackpowder primers with Blackhorn209 -2. Obstructions or contaminants in the flash chamber (improper maintenance) -3. Failure to seal and compact the charge when using Blackhorn 209. -4. Not replacing the mainspring during conversion/poorly installed conversion, improper firing pin protrusion, using oils/grease that gel when cold, etc. First and foremost: The mainspring should be replaced during conversion. The original configuration subjected the mainspring to lots of corrosive blow-back, heat, and extra cycles. All quickly reduce its effectiveness. If not replaced, light and inconsistent primer strikes are probable. Also if the firing pin protrusion was not set properly, or there is a bur, rust, or crud causing the firing pin to hang up, failures to fire are probable. We always replace the mainspring as part of our installation service. If you did it yourself and are having trouble with detonating the primer: Take the rifle to a competent gunsmith to remedy these or any other unsafe or abnormal condition. Use only standard shotshell, full powered 209 primers with Blackhorn209. I recommend and use standard CCI’s!!! Remedies for obstructions or contaminants in the flash chamber/improper maintenance: -- Clean the flash channel of the breech plug with a 7/32 drill bit (only use your fingers and light pressure... do not remove metal!!!) Use standard bore cleaning solvents to dissolve any remaining contaminates and remove. Clean the flash channel of the vent liner with torch tip cleaners. Break cleaner works well to remove oils and greases and any remnants. Remove any lubricants, greases, or oils in the flash channel prior to loading. -- Keep anti-seize only on the threads of the breech plug and vent liner; anti-seize or any other lubricant will reduce primer heat and cause ignition problems when in the flash chamber, or face of the breech plug. -- Swab out any excess oil left in the barrel with a dry patch before loading In cold climates avoid greases and oils that gel or congeal when cold -- We use and recommend only dry PTFE lubes on the firing pin assembly If you are using full powered primers and doing the above maintenance and still having issues only when using Blackhorn209 (typically diagnosed by successfully and repeatedly igniting a load of other easier to ignite black powder substitute), the cause is most likely a poor seal on the primer or projectile. Poor primer seal can also be diagnosed by having soot or blow back on the sides of the 209 primers; only the primer’s face should have soot on it: -- Seal Primer: full power 209 shot shell primer swaged and sealed properly into the breech plug; one should feel some resistance when closing the bolt with a primer in the nose. This is because the primer is being swaged into and sealing the breech plug. Failure for the primer to seal is commonly caused by over or excessive breech plug tuning, or poor primer fit. Correct by changing to a larger size brand of primers (some European manufactured tend to be bigger), or purchase a new breech plug & do not over tune. -- Change projectile: Powerbelts, Bore Locks, Minet, Lubed conicals, Minnie-balls, Hornady FPB etc do not fully seal (aka obturate) until the powder charge expands and presses them into the rifling grooves. Use snug fitting sabots with properly sized bullets with Blackhorn209. -- Change powder: Black Powder and its other substitutes will combust easily and work OK when not completely sealed, but Blackhorn209 needs a good seal for proper ignition. Changing powders when one has a a poor seal is circumventing the problem rather than fixing it. So in summary: 1> You need to make sure your 209 conversion kit is properly installed 2> You still have to clean the crud out of the flash channel like you would any muzzleloader, it just requires a few different tools. In many ways it is easier than taking care of a side lock. Dry PTFE lubes work great on the firing pin and action at all temperatures (hot and cold). 3> When you change to Blackhorn209 those weak 209 black powder primers aren't going to do it. 4> And the old school, easy load, seals with combustion, projectiles don't work well with Blackhorn209 neither. Keep it simple: Use our kit with modern sabots and properly sized bullets, standard 209 primers that swage and seal, and you'll nearly certainly be malfunction and blow back free. A few weeks back my dad came and visited. He brought a 54cal 700 MLS down that he picked up cheap. I put our 209 conversion on it and we went to the range. While sighting it in, I decided to use up a few of the older CCI 209M (magnum) primers I had. I handed him my phone as I knew I could get a bit better quality video than my last attempt at a video (last time I was alone with an old camera and a tripod). I knew I'd have a few stuck primers, especially at light loads (80 Gr by vol of Blackhorn209), but figure I want to be straight and put this kit out warts and all (though these really aren't warts... if you go light with the wrong primers they may stick..) But I wanted to be straight up with the performance: zero blow back, and solid ignition, even with Blackhorn209 is easy. If you get a stuck primer, just dry fire. I use standard CCI's with zero stuck at all normal powder charges. Anyways it shot OK... about 3" at 100 yds with zero load development. The video below was my first attempt at making a YouTube video... in it I use my Badger Ridge 209 Converted 50 Cal rifle, 120 Gr by volume of Blackhorn209, 240 Gr. 44 cal Hornady XTP's, green sabots and CCI standard primers. Not one stuck primer and zero blow back as well. Did you break the handle clean off of your bolt body? It happens more often than most would think!Most of the Remington 700 bolt handles I've run across are silver soldered (AKA brazed) onto the bolt's body. Its not uncommon for them to separate. When we build up our bolts we TIG weld the handles to the body. We can re-weld a handle on for you for any model 700... not just the ML!!! If your handle separates from the body we can help. Purchase our re-weld service, and send the bolt to our welding service address. We'll clean up the old pieces and TIG weld them together. Here's some feed back from one of our customers who contacted us and needed a handle welded back on:Jim G (from Arkansas): Recd the weather shroud today so my bolt is complete again & you did a fine job, it looks great. Feel free to use me as another one of your satisfied customers & I will be proud to refer anyone to you if I run across anyone else that encounters the same problem as I did. Thank You! We've had a lot of requests to build and sell entire bolts, and now we are happy to be able to meet that need! Live out west and have a season where you can't use a sealed breech or 209's, but then have another where you can? Don't want to go through the trouble of converting your original bolt? Bought a rifle that is missing a bolt so you don't have one to convert? Not a problem! These bolts are for you! We scratch build our own stripped bolt bodies out of old production Remington OEM Stainless Steel bolt bodies (in the white) with new production Remington Stainless Steel bolt handles TIG welded on. Then we media blast them to a nice dull patina and press on our 209 conversion bolt nose. We build up our firing pin with brand new PTG and Remington components. That's right: a new 209 converted bolt scratch built from the best components we can find! You have your choice of saving a few ounces with light weight aluminum PTG bolt plug (6.9 ounces, in the white or gloss black anodized), or the standard Remington black mat finished steel (10.1 ounces). Our 209 converted bolts don't work with the original breech plug, so if you don't already have one of our 209 hunter breech plugs, remember to add one on to your purchase in order to have a complete, sealed breech 209 conversion. Remember that You may need to 'tune' your breech plug to your choice of primers (click here to see a tutorial on the process). This is done by gently reaming the breech plug's flash chamber with a letter C drill bit. We offer US made, HSS, letter 'C' drill bits for sale as an 'add on' item. To get free shipping on add on items you must purchase something else with free shipping (or at least $50 in products). STILL HAVE QUESTIONS? PLEASE READ OUR FAQ BEFORE CONTACTING US! We have lots of 700 ML parts and accessories. Don't forget to add on some important things to your cart to save on shipping like: - MMP Sabots - Letter C drill bits - Vent-liners - Hex L wrenches - A breech plug We build these as they are ordered, so turn around time will be a few days. It is our recommendation to convert your bolt by buying our 209 conversion kit rather than buying an entire new bolt unless you hunt in an area that has a season that requires open percussion cap ignition. I often am asked what loads I recommend for Remington 700 ML's with our 209 conversion kit. When I compose my reply I try to stick to generalities, because it doesn't matter much what I like, but what shoots well. And you can't know that without some serious range time. Thus I like what makes sense to me and my rifle shoots well.. but that is in my rifle. Will it work in your rifle? Really what matters is what delivers the damage desired to your target. Also here, I'm not an expert, but I consider myself fairly well read. So I stick to generalities that make sense to me and in developing loads for my rifles what I read seemed to hold true. Lets handle this in a manner I learned from a wise counselor. In such matters there are typically not absolutes, but ranges. And I like to stick to these three: Good, Better, and Best. Of course if something is "Better or Best", it fulfilled the requirements of "Good" and did better or was the best. Also "Good" could probably be called "Good Enough." To keep it simple, I'll just stick with "Good" on this post. For me, in regards to firearms, "Good" really means safe and effective. So owners of a Badger Ridge 209 converted Remington 700 ML we need to start by looking at what the Remington Owners Manual says about performance and safety in regards to bullets, primers, sabots, and powder. If you've never read the owners manual, you should! Right now! (Same is true for you Ruger 77/50 owners... read your manual!) Excerpt below is from page two of the Remington 700 ML Owner's manual, "Safety is Critical to Performance" (I added the bold and underline for emphasis): "A superbly crafted gun is only as good as the hands that hold it. You can never be too careful. Shooting accidents are often caused by careless oversights such as failing to control the direction of the muzzle, failing to fully engage the safety, leaving ammunition in the chamber or using improper loads. These oversights can result in the destruction of life, limb or property. There’s no calling back a bullet once it’s been fired, so it’s critical that you know the principles of safe gun handling and storage before you ever take your new Remington firearm out of the box. The proper use and performance of your firearm depends on correct assembly and maintenance, so it’s critical that you familiarize yourself with the information in this instruction book. Even if you’re a veteran shooter with a collection of Remington firearms, take the time to read this literature. Not all firearms are the same. That means the first step in safe handling is to learn the features and requirements of your new Remington." Ok, that's a lot of good stuff there, but lets emphasize that if you use an improper load you are making an unsafe act. You may get a way with it for a time... at least until you don't. I don't consider this "Good", thus it could never be "Better" nor "Best" So what is an acceptable load? Well first lets see what the manual says about loading... and here we have to remember that the manufacturer of the rifle never tested it with powders like Blackhorn 209 that were not available while it was in production (the same could be said for many other black powder substitutes that came out after the 700ML was designed and tested). Back then there was essentially only black powder and Pyrodex. Also there are so many good options out there for bullets, sabots, etc now that were not available then. Factor in that with our 209 conversion you have changed the priming method and breech plug and you should realize that you do need to run what it says through the filter of progress in regards to percussion caps, and powder. Please take the time to read the excerpt below. Below is excerpted from Page 6 of the Remington Owner's Manual, please take the time to read through it... my comments will be in blue and italics SPECIAL SAFETY RULES FOR MUZZLELOADERS In addition to the Ten Commandments of Firearm Safety, there are several guidelines specific to black powder guns that muzzleloaders must observe at all times to ensure their safety and the safety of others. The following is a brief overview of these guidelines. For full details, thoroughly read this instruction book. MUZZLELOADING SAFETY RULES 1. NEVER smoke while using your muzzleloader or while near any quantity of black powder or PYRODEX.® (Same is true for any powder) 2. BEFORE LOADING, MAKE SURE THE FIREARM IS NOT ALREADY LOADED. To make sure it is unloaded, insert the ramrod provided with the rifle into the bore to the breech plug and note its position at the muzzle. It should be approximately 1/4 inch below flush with the end of the barrel if the rifle is not loaded. (Badger's Note: that is with the OEM breech plug, with our breech plug your ram rod should sit just above flush with the muzzle on and uncharged rifle). NOTE: Nothing can be attached to the ramrod while using it in this way. USE ONLY THE RAMROD PROVIDED. 3. ALWAYS CHECK AND CLEAR THE FLASH HOLE THROUGH THE NIPPLE BEFORE SHOOTING. ALWAYS CHECK THE BARREL FOR OBSTRUCTIONS BEFORE LOADING AND SHOOTING. Before checking for an obstruction, put the safety mechanism in the ‘S’ position and open the bolt assembly and remove the percussion cap and residue from the nipple. Water, snow, mud or any other material can obstruct the barrel and cause barrel damage. (with a 209 conversion you must realize the same is true, but instead of caps and nipples we have primers, flash cambers and vent liners) 4. USE BLACK POWDER OR PYRODEX® ONLY TO LOAD YOUR MUZZLELOADING FIREARM. Never use even small amounts of smokeless powder, even if it is black in color. The use of any other propellant may cause injury or death to the shooter or bystanders and damage the firearm. (So by using other black powder substitutes you are operating under the engineering of the powder manufacturer, not the rifle manufacturer. If you read page 12 you will see why Pyrodex is OK... so you'll have to read and understand the same for whatever black powder substitute you may choose... like Blackhorn 209. ) 5. NEVER EXCEED THE MAXIMUM RECOMMENDED POWDER CHARGE CONTAINED IN THIS BOOK. To do so could result in injury or death to the shooter or bystanders. (Pages 16 and 17 state 120 grains (by volume) as the max, older versions of this manual had a 150 gr by volume for the MLS or "Magnum" version... I recommend you stick to this safer, more conservative 120gr by volume max... also if you choose Blackhorn209 you see it's manufacturer lists 120 gr by volume max as well). 6. NEVER POUR POWDER DIRECTLY FROM A POWDER FLASK OR CONTAINER. A sudden powder ignition from a lingering spark could cause the entire flask to explode. Use an individual charge from a powder measure when loading your rifle. Read and follow your powder manufacturer’s procedures for powder storage. 7. NEVER USE THE WRONG AMMUNITION COMPONENTS. Only use ammunition components that exactly match the caliber markings on your firearm and are meant to be used together. Use only pure lead or Remington® brand loading components when shooting lubed conical bullets. Do not use any other lead alloys with lubed conical bullets as they may be too hard for proper and safe use in your muzzleloader. (so when you use other bullets you are no under the engineering of Remington, but your own or the bullets manufacturer... only use 451-452 bullets in a 50 cal rifle with black sabots... etc) 8. WHEN LOADING, BE CERTAIN POWDER, PATCHES AND PROJECTILES ARE IN THEIR PROPER SEQUENCE AND THAT THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEATED AGAINST ONE ANOTHER. Serious personal injury or death can result if space is left between them. To provide a reference mark for future loadings, mark the ramrod at the muzzle once a projectile has been loaded to the proper depth. NOTE: Be sure to recheck the ramrod mark if you change loading components or alter the ramrod. See Picture 13 on page 15. Never attempt to shoot out a projectile that is not firmly seated against the powder charge or does not seat to the proper depth. Remove these projectiles following the instructions on pages 18 and 19. (witness marks are key to safety!!!) 9. ALWAYS USE COTTON PATCHING. The use of non-cotton patching could build up a static electric charge possibly creating a spark that could ignite the powder. 10. NEVER POUND THE RAMROD. Black powder and PYRODEX are impact sensitive and could ignite from impact. Keep the ramrod directly away from your face or body. (Another reason I like Blackhorn209 is that detonation from impact is much less probable when compared to Black powder or Pyrodex... that is why you have to use full power 209 primers to set it off!) 11. KNOW THE RANGE OF YOUR FIREARM. Muzzleloading projectiles have a range of more than one-half mile. 12. IF THE FIREARM FAILS TO FIRE, BE PREPARED FOR A HANGFIRE. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and wait no less than one full minute before opening the bolt. A spark may have reached the powder without any sound. The rifle could fire at any moment during this minute. If the rifle does not fire within a minute, carefully follow the directions on how to handle a misfire on pages 15 and 16. (With 209's this is typically caused by failure to properly maintain the breech plug and vent liner... see our FAQ and owners instructions for our kits for more info here). 13. RENDER YOUR FIREARM INOPERABLE WHENEVER YOU ARE NOT SHOOTING. Never place the percussion cap on the nipple until just before firing and remove it immediately if you do not fire. Never carry or store a loaded firearm in a building or a vehicle. Unload it by firing it into a suitable backstop before returning to your vehicle, entering a building, crossing or climbing up or down any obstacle that may prevent you from keeping full control over the firearm, such as a fallen tree, fence, treestand or slippery area. Failure to follow this rule may cause serious injury or death to the shooter or bystanders. 14. BLACK POWDER LEAVES HEAVY CORROSIVE RESIDUES. A thorough cleaning and lubing are absolute necessities before storage and prior to loading and shooting. Follow the cleaning instructions starting on page 19. Always carry loading and cleaning equipment with you in the field. (Another reason Blackhorn 209 is better, no fouling, and a less corrosive residue that cleans up with standard gun cleaning solvents) 15. NEVER USE THE WEATHER SHROUD FOR REPEATED SHOOTING. It is intended for single shot usage. Always disassemble and clean the bolt assembly after shooting with the weather shroud. See page 22 for bolt assembly cleaning instructions. (Our 209 conversion totally eliminates this component) 16. WARNING: Discharging firearms in poorly ventilated areas, cleaning firearms or handling ammunition components may result in exposure to lead, a substance known to cause birth defects, reproductive harm, cancer and other serious physical injury. Have adequate ventilation at all times. Wash hands thoroughly after exposure. WARNING: Failure to follow any of these muzzleloading safety rules may cause personal injury or death to the shooter or bystander and damage to property. Do not use a muzzleloader firearm until you fully understand and practice the Ten Commandments of Firearm Safety and the safety guidelines specific to black powder shooting, to your black powder firearm and to your black powder ammunition components. If you are unfamiliar with black powder firearms, seek professional instruction from a qualified organization such as the International Black Powder Hunting Association, National Muzzleloading Rifle Association, National Rifle Association or your State Hunter Safety program. If you have any questions about the safe use of a Remington® black powder firearm, write to us at Remington Arms Company, Inc., Consumer Services, P.O. Box 700, Madison, NC 27025-0700 or call us at 1-800-243-9700. Ok... that's a lot of words there, but you really should read the entire manual and understand it... the only problem is that the OEM system had serious blow back and by using our conversion you must keep in mind that some of it has changed. So back to the original point, what is "Good" and what is "Better" and "Best" For a Badger Ridge converted 700ML I think you could throw out #15, and summarize that the basic safety above could be condensed to: 1. NEVER SMOKE while using your muzzleloader or while near any quantity of black powder or Black Powder Substitute. 2. BEFORE LOADING, MAKE SURE THE FIREARM IS NOT ALREADY LOADED. 3. ALWAYS CHECK AND CLEAR THE BREECH PLUG and VENT LINER'S FLASH CHANNEL BEFORE SHOOTING. ALWAYS CHECK THE BARREL FOR OBSTRUCTIONS BEFORE LOADING AND SHOOTING. 4. USE BLACK POWDER OR BLACK POWDER SUBSTITUTES ONLY TO LOAD YOUR MUZZLELOADING FIREARM. Never use even small amounts of smokeless powder 5. NEVER EXCEED THE MAXIMUM RECOMMENDED POWDER CHARGE of 120 grains (by volume) 6. NEVER POUR POWDER DIRECTLY FROM A POWDER FLASK OR CONTAINER. 7. NEVER USE THE WRONG AMMUNITION COMPONENTS. 8. WHEN LOADING, BE CERTAIN POWDER, PATCHES AND PROJECTILES ARE IN THEIR PROPER SEQUENCE AND THAT THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEATED AGAINST ONE ANOTHER. USE A WITNESS MARK!!! 9. ALWAYS USE COTTON PATCHING or SABOTS MADE FOR YOUR CALIBER BARREL AND BULLET. 10. NEVER POUND THE RAMROD. 11. KNOW THE RANGE OF YOUR FIREARM. Muzzleloading projectiles have a range of more than one-half mile. 12. IF THE FIREARM FAILS TO FIRE, BE PREPARED FOR A HANGFIRE. 13. RENDER YOUR FIREARM INOPERABLE WHENEVER YOU ARE NOT SHOOTING. Never place the primer on the bolt nose until just before firing and remove it immediately if you do not fire. 14. BLACK POWDER AND MOST SUBSTITUTES LEAVE HEAVY CORROSIVE RESIDUES. EVEN BLACKHORN 209's LIGHT RESIDUE WILL PROMOTE CORROSION. Proper and thorough cleaning and lubing are absolute necessities before storage and prior to loading and shooting. Always carry loading and cleaning equipment with you in the field. 15. ONLY SHOOT IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA, PROPER RIFLE RANGE, ETC., AND WASH YOUR HANDS Again, before you read on you really should read the entire OEM manual, with emphasis on Pages 12-17 But at this point I'm sure most have dozed off or skimmed down to the conclusion, and honestly that worries me... you really need to read and understand all of this before you try to load, prime, or fire your rifle... but here's what i think is 'at least good' for bullet, primer, powder selection for a Remington 700ML with a Badger Ridge 209 conversion: GOOD (aka Good Enough) Bullets: - Lead round balls of appropriate sizel, with cotton patching, and proper lubrication (50 cal: 179Gr) - Lubed conicals, Minet projectiles, power belts, bore-locks, etc (but probably not with Blackhorn 209 as they don't always get the best initial seal) - Plastic sabots sized for the caliber of the barrel, with lead or jacketed bullets of a size that matches the inner portion of the sabot (200 to 400 gr) (work well with black powder or any black powder substitute) Powder: - 2F (FF) or FFG black powder - Pyrodex RS, TripleSeven, or other 'stinky chemistry' black powder substitutes - Blackhorn 209 Primer: - Black powder specific 209 with any black powder/substitute (except Blackhorn209) - Any non corrosive modern 209 shot shell (full power) primer with any black powder/substitute Its not hard to do BETTER: PRIMERS: Any standard 209 primer can work with our breech plug if properly tuned. Some folks play with primers after working up a load and have reported improved accuracy just by changing brands. Again your mileage may vary. But, hands down I've found the older copper standard CCI primers worked the best. Mostly because they always feed and have never stuck in a bolt nose on me. The new CCI 209's are silver and I haven't played with them much to endorse them. If I couldn't find the old copper colored CCI's I'd use Federals, Remington STS, or CCI Magnums. Anyways, I've had primers , even CCI magnums stick at low powder charges and require a dry fire to remove. Winchesters are the worst in our Remington 209 conversions as far as sticking in the nose. However, a dry fire has always removed any stuck primers for me. My rifles shoot good enough, with my older CCI's, so I'm not fiddling with primers until I shoot through my stash: I'm sticking to what I know works. Bottom line: Any Standard 209 shot shell primer will ignite any black powder or substitute. POWDER: Any modern black powder substitute is better than black powder in my opinion. I found that Blackhorn 209 works the best: I get the best accuracy, faster velocities, no fouling between shots, and its easier to clean up. It does cost more, but sometimes that's how it is: quality costs. BULLETS: You probably will want to stick with sabots and jacketed hand gun bullets; handgun bullets are designed to be accurate, and expand at velocities your muzzleoader will produce. There are lots of pointed hand gun bullets now like Hornady FTX's that have improved ballistic coefficients. There are also jacketed 'muzzle loader' bullets that frequently come with sabots that work well. 200 to 350 gr bullets are typically used in modern inline muzzleloaders with success. You may find that pointed bullets require special loading jags or their points get damaged and accuracy can suffer. My Remington's have always liked heavier bullets (250gr or more). I recommend you stay away from .458 (rifle) bullets as they typically have thicker jackets and do not expand and perform as well at muzzleloader velocities. But if you can find .458 bullets that are made for a muzzleloader then you may have a great bullet. I absolutely recommend that you forget round balls; they have horrible ballistics and poor performance in larger game, especially at longer ranges. As for conicals, power belts, bore-loc's, minet's etc... I personally I've seen better results with sabots and good jacketed hunting bullet, but the conicals are an option, just not with Blackhorn209. I just have always done better staying away from them; I've read a lot of bad things about some of these as they don't have copper jackets that control expansion. However your rifle may like them. Blackhorn209 has trouble with these sort of projectiles that require the initial expansion of the powder charge to seal them to the bore... especially in a Remington 700ML. If you are using Blackhorn209 you should stay away from these and use sabots! SABOTS: My rifles generally shoot the best when I use the largest handgun bullet I can get a sabot for in the rifle's caliber: - In a 54, you can get purple sabots that let you shoot .50 caliber handgun bullets. - In a .50 cal you can get black sabots that let you shoot .451-.452 hand gun bullets - In a .45 cal i'd try for sabots that use .40cal hand gun bullets Remember what I said about .458's above... you can get them to shoot well, but are they the bullets with thinner jackets that are made to expand? If so then if you can find sabots for them in your .50 you may have good results. This approach is to insure the thinnest sabot petals. In general I've found the thinner the sabot petals the better the accuracy. I've read in various books that its because the sabot separates from the bullet 'cleaner' and quicker with thinner petals... I've also heard its because the thinner petals allow for better concentric alignment of the bullet to the bore. Honestly, thinner petals just seem to work; I don't claim to know why, nor do I really care because I've seen it prove out at the range. This is counter to what some would like... ie the smallest diameter bullet, with the highest BC, going at the fastest speed (requires thick sabot petals). From what I've seen accuracy is all about thin sabot petals. And its accuracy that lets you reach out and hit distant targets. High velocity and fast flat shooters help at range, but only if they are accurate to start. I know my 50 cal rifles shoot black MMP sabots with 45 cal bullets better than they do green MMP sabots with .44 cal bullets... or with harvester crush rib sabots... but not by all that much. I haven't proven this with my .54 yet, but so far it shoots purple MMP sabots with 50 cal FTX bullets very well. So well I don't know if I'm going to do any more development... I'll probably just use it as a loner/back up rifle and hunt it as is. All that said, I have clients that swear their 50 cal rifles love the 44 cal bullets with green sabots. So your mileage may vary! I have one 50 cal rifle that likes 250gr XTP's better than 250 or 200gr FTX's... I wish it didn't because I like the idea of slighly flatter shooting (of the pointed FTX). I still load it with XTP's when I'm shooting at deer... because that is what that rifle shoots best. At this point I think I'm rambling and you can see that we may be splitting hairs when it comes to BC's and velocities in muzzleloaders. Bottom line: Stick with Sabots, handgun bullets, full power 209 primers, and Blackhorn 209 and you'll definitely be doing better and perhaps even best... How do you get the best out of your rifle?I suggest you take a few of the better options above, go to the range, apply the safety rules and procedures you find in the Owner's Manual and see what your rifle likes.
If you don't own any muzzleloading components yet, I encourage you to convert your Ruger 77/50 or your Remington 700 ML to our 209 kit, and pick up some MMP Sabots from us. Then go to your local sporting goods store and get a box of correlating size quality handgun bullets, 209 Primers, and Blackhorn 209 (along with standard black powder accessories like a powder measure, flask, starter, etc). Read the owners manual and the directions on your powder bottle. Then go to the range and work up your loads as they direct. Hope this helps and sets you on a good safe path. Truth is that you have a lot of choices to make. In general, if you pick better components and work up per the manuals, you will probably quickly find out what works best. Always follow the ten commandments of shooting and special muzzle-loader safety rules! |
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